# No, the Left is not anti-Semitic (Good grief!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847 "2015-08-03T03:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/381 "2015-08-09T12:16:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Not really. Okay, I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/382 "2015-08-09T12:18:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, I disagree. All right, then. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/383 "2015-08-09T12:42:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Do you know the best way to stop racial discrimination? I have to admit, I’m curious. Please spill the beans. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/384 "2015-08-09T12:47:48Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I have to admit, I’m curious. Please spill the beans. I’m betting this is supposed to be the ‘brilliance’ of Chief Justice Roberts – “the best way to stop discrimination is to stop discriminating”. In fact, all problems can be approached this way: “ISIS, stop terrorizing”. Problem solved. “Drug dealers, stop dealing drugs”. Bingo. “Corrupt people, stop being corrupt”. Awesome. Done and done. Problems solved. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/385 "2015-08-09T13:21:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m betting this is supposed to be the ‘brilliance’ of Chief Justice Roberts – “the best way to stop discrimination is to stop discriminating”. The Chief Justice is correct. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/386 "2015-08-09T13:33:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The Chief Justice is correct. How easy it is to solve our problems then. I wonder how any remain, when it’s so easy. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/387 "2015-08-09T13:35:49Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The Chief Justice is correct. What’s your evidence for that being the best way? And, since you dismiss the role the particulars of the situation might have to play, the best way in nigh all circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/388 "2015-08-09T14:39:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I do, but only because there is more unequal treatment without Affirmative Action than with it, in my view. It is bad and I hope one day that society will be less unequal and we can get rid of it. Well not drafting Israeli Arabs is bad, and someday, when Israeli Arabs stop sympathizing with Israel’s enemies, that practice can stop. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/389 "2015-08-09T14:52:19Z")
Then work to assure Israeli Arabs that Israel’s enemies are theirs as well. Work to assure them that are valued as citizens equally with their Jewish neighbors. Well, “neighbor” is probably an exaggeration. More’s the pity. Or is this already the case, and they simply refuse to accept it? Is that your premise, **Terr**? That they are already accepted and valued equally, but are just too stubborn to admit it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/390 "2015-08-09T15:04:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well not drafting Israeli Arabs is bad, and someday, when Israeli Arabs stop sympathizing with Israel’s enemies, that practice can stop. They all do? Or just some of them? And which enemies? I sympathize with Palestinian children (and their parents) who live peacefully and have very little chance at getting out of poverty, while opposing any Palestinians who commit violence. Do I sympathize with Israel’s enemies? And undoubtedly many other Jews, including some Jews in Israel, share some sympathies with Israeli Arabs. It’s this sort of sweeping generalization that leads to me to the belief that you might just have some biases of your own against big groups of people. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/391 "2015-08-09T15:25:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They all do? Or just some of them? And which enemies? Those who do not can volunteer for military service. As for “sweeping generalizations” - do ALL Affirmative Action recipients need it? Or just some of them? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/392 "2015-08-09T15:31:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How easy it is to solve our problems then. I wonder how any remain, when it’s so easy. I’m sure of course that \*\*D’Anconia \*\* is utterly disgusted by Israel’s racist immigration laws as well as the way the Israeli government gave control of much of Israel’s land to a quasi-government organization, the JNF, which openly discriminates against the native population of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/393 "2015-08-09T15:59:05Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m sure of course that \*\*D’Anconia \*\* is utterly disgusted by Israel’s racist immigration laws Or US racist immigration laws? Or German racist immigration laws? Or Greek racist immigration laws? etc. etc. I mean, US has (gasp!) quotas on immigration from different places, and Germans and Greeks have those “laws of return” that discriminate based on ethnicity! > [@](#): > > as well as the way the Israeli government gave control of much of Israel’s land to a quasi-government organization, the JNF, which openly discriminates against the native population of Israel. LOL. The “quasi-government” organization is actually private and solicits donations as a private organization for buying the land, the “much” is 13% and the “native population” mostly came to the area after Jews started immigrating. But otherwise - yes, correct. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/394 "2015-08-09T16:08:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > But otherwise - yes, correct. Oh, one more - Israel didn’t “give” JNF control of the land. JNF actually bought the land. With those donations from Jews everywhere. Both before 1948 (they owned about 1000 km^2 by 1948) and after (another 1000 km^2 or so). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/395 "2015-08-09T16:36:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Those who do not can volunteer for military service. As for “sweeping generalizations” - do ALL Affirmative Action recipients need it? Or just some of them? Some of them, probably. Since we have to err on one side or the other, I think erring on this side is better than the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/396 "2015-08-09T16:45:15Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Those who do not can volunteer for military service. As for “sweeping generalizations” - do ALL Affirmative Action recipients need it? Or just some of them? And the connection between the two topics? Ah, right, liberals and lefties! Of course! For a while, there, I was having trouble seeing the obvious connection. In both cases, people who’s opinions you don’t like disagree with you. So, in that sense, they are virtually identical. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/397 "2015-08-09T16:47:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > LOL. The “quasi-government” organization is actually private and solicits donations as a private organization for buying the land, the “much” is 13% and the “native population” mostly came to the area after Jews started immigrating. But otherwise - yes, correct. Actually nobody believes Joan Peters fantasies anymore. Even Daniel Pipes has distanced himself from her claptrap. Beyond that you’ll notice the early Zionists regularly referred to the Arabs as “natives”. Are you saying they were wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/398 "2015-08-09T17:16:44Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Actually nobody believes Joan Peters fantasies anymore. All you have to do is look at last names. Some of the biggest clans. Al-Masri, Al-Afgani, Mughrabi, Al-Djazair, Al-Yamani, Hourani, Tarabulsi, Bardawil, Turki, Bushnak, Lubnani, Hindi, Halabi, Nashahibi, Zoabi, Al-Kurd, etc. etc. etc. All point to where they came from. And all not “native”. You’re supposedly the big “expert” - you didn’t know that? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/399 "2015-08-09T17:33:39Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I also am not sure what the Armenian Holocaust has to with with the actions of the modern day Armenian state. Maybe nothing. I just really love Armenian Genocide threads. I don’t participate, I just pop my popcorn, sit back, and watch the fireworks. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure based on my earlier posts why I’d oppose any of that or what makes you think I’m not fairly familiar with the treatment of Israeli Arabs. Nothing. I’m playing to the Peanut Gallery who don’t know you. > [@](#): > > However, we can protest the treatment of ethnic minorities in lots of countries that are ethno-states without demanding they somehow reversing history. I’m not suggesting that we reverse history. What I want is Israel to recognize that their fathers and grandfathers screwed up and left a problem for them to clean up. Refugee camps are no way to fix the problem for generations and generations, world without end. It’s time to take off their ties and roll up their sleeves and work on it. From what I’ve seen of Israeli politicians, at least, they’re already dressed for it. Ah, Casual Friday, five days a week. Gotta admire a country with such a dress code. 😉 > [@](#): > > There are also far more North Africans in France and far more non-Germans in Germany yet neither country receives one tenth the criticism that Israel gets. Outrage fatigue, to start. Or kaizen. (You want cliches, you’ve come to the right guy.) You cannot solve all the world’s problems at once. You need to triage the problems, and Israel and Palestine are where most of the shooting is. You fix that and you can use it to embarrass some of the others into doing it themselves. Repairing Israel and Palestine can be done. Look at Northern Ireland. Thirty years ago they had the same shit going on there, but they sat down and fixed it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/400 "2015-08-09T18:22:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > All you have to do is look at last names. Some of the biggest clans. Al-Masri, Al-Afgani, Mughrabi, Al-Djazair, Al-Yamani, Hourani, Tarabulsi, Bardawil, Turki, Bushnak, Lubnani, Hindi, Halabi, Nashahibi, Zoabi, Al-Kurd, etc. etc. etc. All point to where they came from. And all not “native”. You’re supposedly the big “expert” - you didn’t know that? There was a time, people named Smith were metalworkers, people named Fletcher were people who attached feathers to arrows. Which is to say, family names may reflect the origin of families in the long term. Someone in Bill O’Reilly’s ancestral tree very likely came from Ireland, someone named Al-Afgani had an ancestor who came from Afgan. And, of course, “native” derives from “natal”, as in birthplace. Everyone born in Israel is a “native” of Israel. I’m not imagining you as a big “expert” but I’d be willing to bet you knew that. Wouldn’t give odds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847.md?page=21)