# No, the Left is not anti-Semitic (Good grief!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847 "2015-08-03T03:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/61 "2015-08-03T21:37:38Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Just as the Right is filled to the brim with racists, so is the Left filled to the brim with antisemites. In other words, racist antisemite fucks exist in all parts of society, regardless of political persuasion. People are shitheads. But the theses that the Left is more antisemitic than the Right, or that any more than a tiny, if vocal, minority on either side are antisemites, are not borne out in fact. NB: I am not in any way intending to minimize the role that hatred of Jews plays in society, nor its horrific and pernicious corrosive qualities. I’d have a much larger family were it not for antisemitism. . ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/62 "2015-08-03T21:39:21Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > So please just stop it. Stop feigning ignorance. Stop micro-analyzing it. Stop denying its very real existence. Thanks in advance. I didn’t do any of these things. I think anti-Semitism is very real, incredibly damaging and hateful, and we must be on guard against it. I also, at the same time, think we can see it where it isn’t. That is true of racism, as well. Distinguishing between hate and honest criticism is enormously important. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/63 "2015-08-03T21:40:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > 300 people can overwhelm our brains into thinking everyone thinks a certain way, but that’s literally only a 1 in a million opinion (in the U.S.). Literally, this is literally not true. There are at least 318 million people in the US. You need to re-math. > [@BigT](#): > > Am I anti-Chinese, anti-Russian, anti-Arab, anti-French? I disagree with all of those countries politically. Arab is not a country. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/64 "2015-08-03T21:42:07Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > \*[At] a lecture at the University of Sydney … Professor Jake Lynch was filmed waving money in the faces of an elderly Jewish women Is Professor Jake Lynch an elected left-wing politician? Is he a popular pundit like Jon Stewart (on the left) or Anne Coulter (on the right)? Is he a behind-the-scenes political operative or power broker? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/65 "2015-08-03T21:45:41Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I agree, as I said, that anti-semitism can be a third reason, and can also enhance those two reasons, but I think those two explain a LOT. I think anti-Semitism absolutely IS the third reason (not just can be), and that it is largely, but not exclusively, the impetus behind a lot of the previous two arguments. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/66 "2015-08-03T22:18:46Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think anti-Semitism absolutely IS the third reason (not just can be), Absolutely, I did not intend my phrasing to imply otherwise. > [@](#): > > and that it is largely, but not exclusively, the impetus behind a lot of the previous two arguments. Of course, the whole question of this thread is how much “largely” and “a lot of” are. Edited to add: Actually, the whole question of this thread is: (a) how common pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli sentiment is in the political left (presumably mainly focused on the USA) (and compared to the political right), and (b) how much “largely” and “a lot of” are ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/67 "2015-08-03T22:32:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Did Jesus convert to Christianity? You have to admit, that’s a hell of a celebrity endorsement. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/68 "2015-08-03T22:44:48Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > You can’t compare protests-about-Palestine with protests-about-ISIS because the situations are not identical, and are in fact not even similar. But it wasn’t “protests-about-Palestine”. It was mass protests about “Israel is killing civilians and children!!!111!!”. No such mass protests when it’s US/Britain/France killing civilians and children now in Syria/Iraq. Not similar? Arab civilians/children killed in a military operation in one case. Arab civilians/children killed in a military operation in the other. Except in one case it is in self-defense and in the other it isn’t. Guess which one provokes more hatred and vitriol? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/69 "2015-08-03T22:48:45Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Absolutely, I did not intend my phrasing to imply otherwise. > > Of course, the whole question of this thread is how much “largely” and “a lot of” are. > > Edited to add: Actually, the whole question of this thread is: (a) how common pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli sentiment is in the political left (presumably mainly focused on the USA) (and compared to the political right), and (b) how much “largely” and “a lot of” are I felt, perhaps erroneously given what you’re saying here, that you thought anti-Semitism is not really behind a lot of it, just a little. I’m sorry to have misunderstood. But agreed, how much is “largely” and “a lot”? I don’t know. I feel like it’s both over- and under-estimated. And as with racism, there are probably people who feel animus who aren’t aware of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/70 "2015-08-03T22:54:26Z")
> [@](#): > > …Guess which one provokes more hatred and vitriol? I get the feeling you are groping your way to a scathing accusation of hypocrisy? Is that it, that’s what you got? Or is protesting against civilian casualties wrong? I’ve protested against civilian casualties inflicted by my _own_ government, on a number of occasions for too many years. Getting pretty damned sick of it, too. If I looked around, would I have seen you there? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/71 "2015-08-03T23:07:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Did Jesus convert to Christianity? Let’s see: Baptism. Check Communion. Check Confession. No need We got ourselves a Christian!!! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/72 "2015-08-03T23:35:26Z")
That’s a subject of some debate amongst concerned scholars, but the consensus seems to center around the notion that Jesus was more an itinerant rabbi than intent on founding a separate religion. According to them, Scripture that suggests that Jesus declared himself to be the Messiah is suspect and likely the result of later tampering. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/73 "2015-08-03T23:53:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That’s a subject of some debate amongst concerned scholars, but the consensus seems to center around the notion that Jesus was more an itinerant rabbi than intent on founding a separate religion. According to them, Scripture that suggests that Jesus declared himself to be the Messiah is suspect and likely the result of later tampering. If you read the NT in the original English, you’ll see why most of those folks are wrong what with their “_tekton_” and their “_almah_” and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/74 "2015-08-03T23:56:06Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I think it’s probably fair to say a large chunk of Europe has huge sympathies with a population that has been effectively stateless refugees for 70 years, and that is now collectively and fundamentally traumatised. Yes, and I’m with Obama in thinking this bullshit has gone on long enough and it’s high time for both sides to start acting like adults and realize they won’t get everything they want in a compromise. > [@elucidator](#): > > Who the hell is Benny Morris, and when did I love him? Assuming, of course, that I pass muster for your definition of “leftist”? I have no idea who the fuck he is, and I make an effort to know who anybody of consequence is. > [@Shayna](#): > > You GROSSLY misrepresent the disgusting, filthy bile spewed about Israel and Jews. > … > Just as the Right is filled to the brim with racists, so is the Left filled to the brim with antisemites. Filled to the brim? As in ALL of the Left? My friend, you really need to get some new friends. People who AREN’T sitting in their basements spewing hate. Meet some nice, normal people. Talk to them; ask them questions. Look for points of agreement and disagreement and work with them NICELY to understand and even adopt your point of view. Facebook and Twitter will take you into a satanic underworld that will feed your paranoia, and it is too easy to get lost down there with all the psychos. > [@BigT](#): > > I guess you’re counting here not knowing how Facebook and Twitter work? Because the only reason this is true is that you follow or have “friended” anti-Semites. It tells us nothing about how people generally think, but just about your online habits. (Maybe you want to keep an eye on the horrible people or something?) > … > The Internet often creates this artificial feeling that you are seeing the opinions of the general populace, when you really only see the opinions of the people whose opinions you want to see. Just 300 people can overwhelm our brains into thinking everyone thinks a certain way, but that’s literally only a 1 in a million opinion (in the U.S.). Or this. The echo chambers of the deep innertubes will do your head wrong, **Shayna** , and sometimes you have to come up for a breath of reality ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/75 "2015-08-04T01:40:05Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Is Professor Jake Lynch an elected left-wing politician? Is he a popular pundit like Jon Stewart (on the left) or Anne Coulter (on the right)? Is he a behind-the-scenes political operative or power broker? Jon Stewart criticizes Israel all the time. And criticizes American politicians for NOT criticizing Israel. Shayna must think he’s Anti-Semitic too. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/76 "2015-08-04T01:45:00Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You GROSSLY misrepresent the disgusting, filthy bile spewed about Israel and Jews. No one’s walking around politely saying gee we don’t agree with Israel’s actions on that. That is utterly naive. No, they’re spreading fake mutilated children images calling Jews filthy baby killers. Evil murderers commuting _genocide_ (as if they even know what the fuck that word means). > > I’m done with this conversation. You don’t see it because you don’t want to see it. Maybe because it doesn’t affect you, I don’t know. But I’m not going to go on repeating myself. I’ve said what I have to say on the matter. You can keep your head buried in the sand all you want but it won’t change reality. > > Just as the Right is filled to the brim with racists, so is the Left filled to the brim with antisemites. > > Enjoy your day. I’m going to go get in the hot tub. > [@Shayna](#): > > You GROSSLY misrepresent the disgusting, filthy bile spewed about Israel and Jews. No one’s walking around politely saying gee we don’t agree with Israel’s actions on that. That is utterly naive. No, they’re spreading fake mutilated children images calling Jews filthy baby killers. Evil murderers commuting _genocide_ (as if they even know what the fuck that word means). That Jews are greedy imperialist land-grabbers. > > I’m done with this conversation. You don’t see it because you don’t want to see it. Maybe because it doesn’t affect you, I don’t know. But I’m not going to go on repeating myself. I’ve said what I have to say on the matter. You can keep your head buried in the sand all you want but it won’t change reality. > > [Why does the left downplay antisemitism?](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/20/why-does-the-left-ignore-antisemitism-all-forms-of-racism-should-be-abhorred) > > \*[At] a lecture at the University of Sydney … Professor Jake Lynch was filmed waving money in the faces of an elderly Jewish women and the Jewish student trying to prevent the two from coming to blows. … [T]he image of a leftwing academic brandishing money in the faces of Jewish people clearly evokes the crude antisemitic falsehood that Jews are obsessed with money and perhaps neatly encapsulates the shift of the left away from Jews. … > > When progressives downplay or diminish the threat of antisemitism in the diaspora because of Israel – or, worse, fuel it – they do not extend to us those equal rights they purport to stand for. Progressives do more than dishonouring their values in this case, they diminish the unique history of Jews in Australian (and western) society, failing to acknowledge and defend us as equal, regardless of our relationship with or opinions about Israel. > > The left must act to repair its straining relationship with Jews and once again take up opposition to antisemitism as its cause. Antisemitism is, like all forms of racism, to be abhorred and condemned unequivocally, not reduced and marginalised by games of comparison and mitigation. \* > > So please just stop it. Stop feigning ignorance. Stop micro-analyzing it. Stop denying its very real existence. Thanks in advance. > > Just as the Right is filled to the brim with racists, so is the Left filled to the brim with antisemites. > > Enjoy your day. I’m going to go get in the hot tub. You’re starting to repeat yourself, **Shayna**. Maybe it’s time for a lie-down. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/77 "2015-08-04T01:57:56Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I think it’s probably fair to say a large chunk of Europe has huge sympathies with a population that has been effectively stateless refugees for 70 years, and that is now collectively and fundamentally traumatised. And pretty old too, right? I mean, we’re talking about a bunch of senior citizens now. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/78 "2015-08-04T03:38:11Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The general rule is that when liberals are impinging on someone’s integrity, they don’t tend to blame it on their race while conservatives do that by design. Charges of liberal antisemitism is silly and shows that some posters really really have a problem with seeing their own flaws in their opponents. “I do it, so liberals must do it too!” they think to themselves. Considering the fact that you’ve strenuously argued that the Jews have no right to a state of their own while admitting you have no problems with other states being ethnic based states based on blood and soil nationalism, you might want to be a bit careful in making such arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/79 "2015-08-04T03:45:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You’re starting to repeat yourself, **Shayna**. Maybe it’s time for a lie-down. No **Shayna** is correct and there is no need to be condescending about it. **The Left** is unjustly hard on the Jewish people and the nation of Israel. Most of the American Right supports them fully for their own reasons but that has little bearing on this discussion. Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years wherever they went. [However, they have contributed a vastly disproportionate amount to almost all endeavors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Jews). Ever hear about Albert Einstein? He is one of tens of thousands of distinguished Jews among a people that only have, at most 15 million people worldwide (0.2% of the worldwide population). Those that don’t want to live in Israel have found a safe-haven in the U.S. and we are all much better off for it. Israel was founded as artificial state in 1948 and it has become the only western style social democracy in the region. I honestly don’t care what the Palestinians think about it today. They have no claim to land that was legitimately organized as a protectorate Jewish state. That ship sailed decades ago. Israel has done quite well while most of the rest of the region is still in a state of constant chaos. I don’t base my political opinions on who appears to have the poorest children. Israel is there to stay and will be quite well protected both among themselves and the U.S. for the foreseeable future. The most pragmatic idea is for the opposition to give up, leave Israel alone and make alternate lifestyle if its existence bothers anyone. The major problem with the anti-Israel (and anti-Jewish stance) is that the deal to found Israel was struck just after WWII and now people want to change it. That isn’t going to work. Europeans already made a deal to get Jews mostly of Europe and resettle them back to their ancestral home with about equal numbers fleeing to the U.S. That is a long term promise and one that has to be kept. I don’t care if other people in need are knocking at their virtual door. You are looking at people whose recent ancestors were executed en masse and now just want a safe state of their own. I fully support that and not the reactionary stance demonstrated by some of the Left. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/80 "2015-08-04T03:45:33Z")
It’s also quite hysterical to hear people express extremely strong opinions about Israel and then happily and almost proudly admit they have no idea who Benny Morris is. It’s a bit like claiming you’re a huge nut for the Civil War and then asking “Who’s James McPherson?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847.md?page=5)