# No, the Left is not anti-Semitic (Good grief!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847 "2015-08-03T03:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/141 "2015-08-05T02:43:59Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And how many people do you think are in Occupy? More than Stormfront types, which includes the neo-Nazis and KKK? I don’t know how to break this to ya, but Occupy ain’t exactly mainstream. They are niche nutters. They were at least tens of thousands. Stormfront is probably in hundreds. So yes, absolute numbers of anti-semites, probably pretty close. [This cartoon](http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.425412.1334854660!/image/4096856194.png_gen/derivatives/headline_1218x685/4096856194.png) was posted on Occupy Tampa’s facebook page in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/142 "2015-08-05T02:44:47Z")
Oh for fuck’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/143 "2015-08-05T03:11:23Z")
I give up. Some people just like to feel victimized, and they will twist facts so they can. Me, I don’t like people telling lies about me, but that’s what this vast US Leftist Anti-Semitic Conspiracy is. It’s a lie. From **Shayna** and her insular group of Facebook haters to **Terr** and his poor numeracy. Honestly, **Terr** , Stormfront is just a website, but the people to whom that thinking appeals are legion, not “hundreds.” And Occupy stopped making serious news years ago. Get a clue. And Occupy-fucking-TAMPA? Words fail to describe just how irrelevant they could be. Do yourselves a favor and work on REAL problems in this country. A great Jewish philosopher who had no intention of starting a new religion kept it simple: Feed the hungry. Give drink to the thirsty. Clothe the naked. Shelter the homeless. Visit the sick. Visit the imprisoned. HELP people. And if you are going to make up things about people, imagine good thing, and tell them. Arouse in them an eager want–make them believe they can be better. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/144 "2015-08-05T03:17:33Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Honestly, **Terr** , Stormfront is just a website, but the people to whom that thinking appeals **are legion, not “hundreds.”** Interesting. You were the one asking for cites, I believe. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/145 "2015-08-05T03:19:03Z")
You have Poe and Godwin, and now this thread has been Carnegied! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/146 "2015-08-05T03:41:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Interesting. You were the one asking for cites, I believe. Cite? > [@The SPLC](#): > > Created by former Alabama Klan boss and long-time white supremacist Don Black in 1995, Stormfront was the first major hate site on the Internet. Claiming more than 300,000 registered members as of May 2015 (though far fewer remain active), the site has been a very popular online forum for white nationalists and other racial extremists. But a series of reverses — the 2008 assertion by Black’s wife that she was not a racist, a similar declaration by his son in 2010, and the Southern Poverty Law Center’s exposure of the identity of many Stormfront funders and the fact its registered users have been behind almost 100 murders — have caused a series of problems for the Web forum. > **[Stormfront](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/stormfront)** > > Created by former Alabama Klan boss and long-time white supremacist Don Black in 1995, Stormfront was the first major hate site on the Internet. Claiming more than 300,000 registered members as of May 2015 (though far fewer remain active), the site... Note the “almost 100 murders” and compare it with the Left’s bodycount. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/147 "2015-08-05T03:55:40Z")
Oh please. Self-claimed numbers are ridiculous. Of course stormfront tries to puff itself up. Is there any proof whatsoever of that 300,000 number? SPLC also claimed 100 murders but [could only identify 10](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/18/hate-crime-murders-website-stormfront-report). Yes, I still think that there are more anti-semites, in absolute numbers, on the left than on the right. I point you again to Nathan Weinstock, a leftist French activist who wrote the book “Zionism: False Messiah” in the 60s. “I have prohibited my publisher from reissuing Zionism - False Messiah. Let me add that, while I naively believed - an error of youth - that this book could fuel a constructive discussion leading to Israeli-Palestinian coexistence, I came to realise that this had been unforgivable naivety on my part: the book served only to salve the conscience of avowed and unconscious anti-Semites.” He was not talking about right-wingers there. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/148 "2015-08-05T04:05:39Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Do yourselves a favor and work on REAL problems in this country. A great Jewish philosopher who had no intention of starting a new religion kept it simple: Feed the hungry. Give drink to the thirsty. Clothe the naked. Shelter the homeless. Visit the sick. Visit the imprisoned. > > HELP people. And if you are going to make up things about people, imagine good thing, and tell them. Arouse in them an eager want–make them believe they can be better. That is all great and noteworthy. Now tell it to Leftist protesters around the world especially in Europe. Israel was a supposed ‘solution’ that is now somehow a problem now that it has done quite well and become more rich and successful than its neighbors. That should be applauded and not become a point of guilt especially for the very people that have suffered so much. I am sure I would feel bad too if I was a Palestinian caught up in a perpetual land dispute but you have to keep some things in perspective. Israel was an intentionally engineered solution to the atrocities the Jewish people suffered in Europe before and during WWII. That is their land now. THE END. I know it sucks being a second class non-citizen but it has been almost 70 years now and things aren’t going to change suddenly. It is time for them to find a better place to live in the massive region where they are the majority. Life isn’t fair sometimes and it isn’t worth keeping a low grade war going over such disputes over decades. If you are still upset about it, blame the French as always. They were the key player in the formation of Israel and now many French Leftists are among its biggest detractors. You simply can’t win when you go up against a determined Leftist mindset so the best thing to do is pick the things that are working and support those while defending them from the potential threats. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/149 "2015-08-05T04:09:56Z")
I’m still trying to believe that someone could be so monomaniacal as to post stawman crap like: > [@chappachula](#): > > A leftist may not want to admit to himself that he’s a bigot. But when he stands alongside Hamas, and **enjoys watching terrorists shoot at Jewish nursery schools** — he’s not just a useful idiot…he’s an anti-semitic bigot. I’m part of a think tank that is now full of lefties. Not ONE comment from any of them has been anti-semitic. EVER. The closest we got was that most of us thought Congress inviting Netanyahu to address them was mostly politics, but we’d have said the same about them inviting Merkel or Putin. Overall, our leanings are pro-Israel. If any of the knee-jerking posters here (or, heck, anyone) has _ever_ had a left-winger say to them that they _“enjoy watching terrorists shoot at Jewish nursery schools”_, then I’d eat my hat… but I still wouldn’t believe it. Same goes with **adaher** ’s _“If you believe that Israel is uniquely evil for its human rights abuses [or] believe that Israel is the biggest threat to world peace…”_ Any lefties here actually believe that? Again, betting he’s never heard anyone say that. I agree with the cause of anti-anti-Semitism, so it hurts to see these idiotic strawmen. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/150 "2015-08-05T04:11:01Z")
Shag: Typing takes effort, proving the Left is Anti-Semitic takes cut and paste and should be trivial for how common you believe it to be. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/151 "2015-08-05T04:22:45Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I already gave you the basic reason for it. Many Leftists love the underdog of the day no matter what the greater context is. The main sin that Jews brought on themselves in the Leftist mindset is that they became too successful too fast. Now, another, poorer, group wants part of the land that they were given after the atrocities of WWII but that doesn’t matter now. All that matters is that some poor Muslims want it too but the rich and successful Jews won’t voluntarily relinquish territory to poorer people that haven’t done as well despite controlling the rest of the region. That success story is why the Right generally views Jewish culture extremely favorably and the Left does not. They made the mistake of overcoming extreme obstacles to succeed in ways that few other groups have. Wow, that representation of the Palestinian problem is easily as racist as claiming that Shmuley and Rivkah down the corner control Hollywood and Wall Street. Palestinians who speak Arabic and are not Jewish are somehow supposedly the same group as the larger and wealthier Bedouin tribes in the region? Really? Because, what, they speak the dominant language? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/152 "2015-08-05T04:23:03Z")
Those poor Jews, those poor, poor Jews. Can’t we all just send them help in some way, it sounds like they have so many terrible problem. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/153 "2015-08-05T04:45:07Z")
Kind of not helping, **up.** Well, not helping my OP, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/154 "2015-08-05T05:07:07Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Wow, that representation of the Palestinian problem is easily as racist as claiming that Shmuley and Rivkah down the corner control Hollywood and Wall Street. > > Palestinians who speak Arabic and are not Jewish are somehow supposedly the same group as the larger and wealthier Bedouin tribes in the region? Really? Because, what, they speak the dominant language? This type of fuzzy headed thinking is why I do not respect Leftists at all. There is no sense of perspective. Israel was established in 1948 just after 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust as a safe-haven Jewish state (there are less than 15 million Jews in the world even today). Today, the vast majority of Jews live in Israel followed by the U.S. and have done quite well since then. Israel is a tiny country geographically (about the size of New Jersey, the 5th smallest state in the U.S.) Of course the land in question had some people already living on it just like every other piece of inhabitable land on earth does but that was the deal. The Jews could have a safe refuge where they could maintain their own security even when faced with hostile neighbors or they could flee to the U.S. A relative few could remain where they were or emigrate to other places like Mexico or Brazil. Again, I would be more than a little ticked off personally if I was a Palestinian that booted off my land for Jewish people to start a new country on it but that was about 70 years ago and few of those original landowners are still alive. It isn’t the same thing as a hostile takeover of land from one indigenous group versus another. We are talking about people that just had most of their population exterminated through extreme atrocities and just wanted a safe place to settle and negotiated for it already. I am sorry that the Palestinians happen to live at the wrong place at the wrong time but the (very reasonable) deal has already been made. They have to either move en masse just like the Jews did or live with the conditions as they are. Anything else is just a compromise on an already existing compromise and that can’t be fair to to anyone. They have to be pragmatic because they cannot win by escalating violence and they have little to negotiate with. The Israeli military is plenty strong enough on its own but it is also backed by the full force of the U.S. military if things ever get really bad. It isn’t wise to support schoolyard levels violence that sometimes get well out of hand and low-level terrorism when faced with such powerful adversaries. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/155 "2015-08-05T05:21:36Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > This type of fuzzy headed thinking is why I do not respect Leftists at all. There is no sense of perspective. Israel was established in 1948 just after 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust as a safe-haven Jewish state . . . Take heart that at least some leftists agree with nearly everything you said. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/156 "2015-08-05T07:02:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How many Jews are not Jews? Depends on who you’re asking. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Take heart that at least some leftists agree with nearly everything you said. Which parts? That leftists are fuzzy headed thinkers who shouldn’t be respected? The grossly simplistic history lesson? The ridiculous and untenable proposal for a solution? As a Jewish leftist, I agree that there are antisemitic leftists. What percentage I can’t say. I think it’s more prevalent outside the US, and my personal experience isn’t helpful as a gauge because I live in a city that has a lot of Jewish leftists. Also, unlike Shayna, I don’t choose to follow/friend thousands of antisemites on Twitter/Facebook. I believe that posters like **Haberdash** and **Terr** have ulterior motives with these claims because they want to smear\* all\* leftists and therefore discredit all left leaning positions. It’s unworkable for that purpose because, unlike Judaism, there is no membership criteria or vetting process for people who claim to be leftists. If the basic tenets of the Left are antisemitic, how do you explain the Jewish leftists and majority of left leaning US Jews in every political poll out there? There was a time when leftist ideology was practically a religion for secular Jews, and while that has shifted in Israel and certain Jewish populations outside Israel, much of the progressive ideology remains even in those groups. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/157 "2015-08-05T07:25:40Z")
Plus, of course, Israel itself was founded by leftists. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/158 "2015-08-05T12:50:27Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Depends on who you’re asking. > > I believe that posters like **Haberdash** and **Terr** have ulterior motives with these claims because they want to smear\* all\* leftists and therefore discredit all left leaning positions. It’s unworkable for that purpose because, unlike Judaism, there is no membership criteria or vetting process for people who claim to be leftists. I don’t know about those posters but I’m a liberal and have no “ulterior motive”. Or yeah, obviously I’m just making it up for shits and giggles. > [@](#): > > If the basic tenets of the Left are antisemitic, how do you explain the Jewish leftists and majority of left leaning US Jews in every political poll out there? There was a time when leftist ideology was practically a religion for secular Jews, and while that has shifted in Israel and certain Jewish populations outside Israel, much of the progressive ideology remains even in those groups. You’re starting with a false premise. “the basic tenets of the Left are antisemitic” is untrue and people mentioned multiple times that that is what NOBODY is trying to argue. It doesn’t change the fact that a significant undercurrent of the left is antisemitic. No, not anti-semitic in the way that they’re really joyous about the holocaust having happened. No, not anti-semitic in that they think jews are an inferior race. But yes, antisemitic in that they are so anti-Israel that it spreads over to their gut-reacton to jews as a whole. The fact that a lot of successful academics, entrepreneurs, entertainers, etc. are jewish doesn’t help as there is a tendency for the left to root for the underdog. I cannot tell you how _many_ times I’ve heard liberals say, in person, of how they hold disdain for those “oppressive jews” in Israel. So much that it’s a fucking _cliche_ by now. Yes, it is more prevalent in Europe but it’s obvious on American blogs, media outlets etc. as well. Heck, this very forum. I’m not going to waste my time looking for a “cite” that you’re going to dismiss anyway. If you don’t see it, cool. Good for you, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/159 "2015-08-05T13:08:13Z")
“Anti-Israel” and “anti-Semitic” are not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/160 "2015-08-05T13:11:25Z")
Anti-Israeli policy and anti-semetic are not the same thing. Anti-Israel is anti-semetic, just as being anti-Jamaica would mean you have a problem with Jamaicans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847.md?page=9)