# No this race was not an endorsement of racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456 "2016-11-11T03:40:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/41 "2016-11-11T16:20:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But what this author describes is real. and it doesn’t go away by calling her stupid, racist, or bigoted. Nor does [this](https://www.yahoo.com/news/ku-klux-klan-hold-north-230227525.html) sort of thing go away by pretending that racism _wasn’t_ a factor for a not-insignificant portion of Trump’s support. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/42 "2016-11-11T16:20:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Any cite that justifies that belief? In my county, Trump got fewer votes than Romney by about the same margin as Johnson picked up. Hillary got a couple of percent less than Obama did in 2012, but the Trump+Johnson total was also about a percent lower than Romney got. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/43 "2016-11-11T16:37:14Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I could just as easily throw the question back at you. But it’s clear that Libertarianism’s uncompromising free market economic views are far more in line with the GOP mainstream then with that of the Democrats. Add to that the fact that Johnson explicitly appealed to moderate/dissatisfied Republicans (I actually went to a rally of his on Boston Common). Plus the fact that both people on the ticket were former Republican office-holders. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Not \*all \*Trump supporters. But more than the population at large. That’s always true of Republicans. It’s not a meaningful argument. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/44 "2016-11-11T16:45:48Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Strongly disagree: we Trump supporters and voters are not racists, and do not sit idly by when racism occurs. And we do not hate. So you don’t think KKK members are racists ??? They supported Trump wholeheartedly ! ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/45 "2016-11-11T17:04:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > By mocking and demonizing Trump supporters you killed any chance of reaching them. This is probably true. But one person’s offence is another person’s well-meant criticism. For example, clearly the following is offensive and demonizing: “_You’re thinking of voting for Trump? Fuck off you inbred redneck racist_!” This however, while I have seen it or variations on it cause offence, seems to me to be in a different category: “_Trump is running a race-baiting campaign and has been endorsed by the KKK. If you vote for him you will have made common cause with racists and it will have the effect of encouraging his racist supporters._” Now, we’ve had some discussion earlier about the nature of reality, but I think the first sentence there is factual and the second is a reasonable extrapolation from those facts. There is no pejorative language aimed at the potential Trump voter. Nevertheless, statements like this, in my experience, are likely to be met with a response of “_How dare you call me a racist?! It’s your fault if I vote Trump now, because I’m so offended!_” So my question is, is there any way to phrase an argument based upon Trump’s use of race-baiting and his obvious appeal to racists that, in your opinion, might succeed with Trump supporters? Or is the whole topic - which, let’s face it, addresses the single biggest flaw Trump had as a candidate - out of bounds? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/46 "2016-11-11T17:09:05Z")
> [@purplehearingaid](#): > > So you don’t think KKK members are racists ??? They supported Trump wholeheartedly ! This is pretty much game set match, at least relative to most elections. You could, if you had a very distorted worldview, claim that Democrats are as racist as Republicans – I don’t agree mind you, but if you live a in a right-wing (or left wing for that matter) bubble you could believe it. What you can’t really believe is that the KKK’s endorsement of Trump does not mean that Trump isn’t _more_ racist than the average Republican nominee. Assuming that he really meant what he said. If he was just trolling for votes by saying such racist and xenophobic things that even the KKK likes his statements (and they usually dislike both party’s statements), then no one should trust anything he says. I mean, even moreso than by looking at his business track record. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/47 "2016-11-11T17:15:02Z")
> [@purplehearingaid](#): > > So you don’t think KKK members are racists ??? They supported Trump wholeheartedly ! Hi, they **most definitely** are racists. It doesn’t make me one because I supported Trump. And it doesn’t make Trump one. I posted the below earlier in this thread, perhaps it’s helpful? Let me know. Emphasis added. > [@Bullitt](#): > > Trump chose language that allowed the asshole racist supremacists to say, “You see? He’s just like us and endorses everything we stand for.” The media then took that and ran with it. And then some (many!) people bought that. > > Smoke and mirrors. > > When you look at the entirety of what Trump said, it does not endorse the asshole racist supremacist’s position. (BTW you can replace ‘asshole racist supremacist’ with male chauvinist pig or with xenophobe or with anti-Muslim) > > Do you really think we will start getting asshole racist supremacist laws? Wait, don’t answer that, let’s let time tell. I could be wrong in my position. You could be too. Or what happens might fall somewhere in between. > > Let’s see what _ **actually happens** _. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/48 "2016-11-11T17:15:12Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > This is pretty much game set match, at least relative to most elections. You could, if you had a very distorted worldview, claim that Democrats are as racist as Republicans – I don’t agree mind you, but if you live a in a right-wing (or left wing for that matter) bubble you could believe it. > > What you can’t really believe is that the KKK’s endorsement of Trump does not mean that Trump isn’t _more_ racist than the average Republican nominee. Assuming that he really meant what he said. If he was just trolling for votes by saying such racist and xenophobic things that even the KKK likes his statements (and they usually dislike both party’s statements), then no one should trust anything he says. I mean, even moreso than by looking at his business track record. Or alternatively, he said a lot of impolitic and provocative statements, which appealed both to people sick and tired of PC double-talk and to racists as well, the latter being especially encouraged by media portrayals of Trump’s words as racist. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/49 "2016-11-11T17:16:05Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > This is pretty much game set match, at least relative to most elections. You could, if you had a very distorted worldview, claim that Democrats are as racist as Republicans – I don’t agree mind you, but if you live a in a right-wing (or left wing for that matter) bubble you could believe it. > > What you can’t really believe is that the KKK’s endorsement of Trump does not mean that Trump isn’t _more_ racist than the average Republican nominee. Assuming that he really meant what he said. If he was just trolling for votes by saying such racist and xenophobic things that even the KKK likes his statements (and they usually dislike both party’s statements), then no one should trust anything he says. I mean, even moreso than by looking at his business track record. Hi **Ludovic** , see my post directly after yours. ETA: and, _ **every** _ candidate who has won, at least going back to at least Reagan, has made campaign promises they did not keep, or exaggerated somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/50 "2016-11-11T17:43:00Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Strongly disagree: we Trump supporters and voters are not racists, and do not sit idly by when racism occurs. And we do not hate. It sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself of this. “We do not hate”? Lol. I can’t tell if you’re excluding the KKK and its sympathizers from this “we” or if you honestly believe these groups don’t hate. Regardless, this post is going in my folder marked Blatantly False Shit Trump Supporters Had to Believe to Vote for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/51 "2016-11-11T17:59:50Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Trump chose language that allowed the asshole racist supremacists to say, “You see? He’s just like us and endorses everything we stand for.” The media then took that and ran with it. And then some (many!) people bought that. > > Smoke and mirrors. Oh I see. The ole Trump is playing 3D chess theory, the racist gotcha ya version. How clever it is that Trump could reel in the racists all the while sending secret signals to you and other noble anti-haters. Tell me. Were these signals of love and inclusiveness beamed up in the sky like the Thundercat symbol? Or were they more like dog whistles, except in reverse so to speak? Forget those questions, though. Why doesn’t it seem to bother you that Trump deliberately ingratiated himself with racists to advance himself? I mean, let’s assume you’re right. Trump isn’t really racist; he just marketed himself as such. Our president has more than half the country and probably most of the world thinking he hates anyone that is not a white male…and you don’t see how damaging this could be on pretty much every level imaginable? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/52 "2016-11-11T18:05:42Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Did you even read the article? These are Clinton supporters inciting violence, vandalism, hate. No, why would I? What people who aren’t Trump supporters are doing isn’t relevant when discussing Trump supporters and their bigotry (or, as you would have it, the lack thereof). You said “we do not hate” and I showed that wasn’t the case. > [@](#): > > So you don’t think KKK members are racists ??? They supported Trump wholeheartedly ! There’s also that. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/53 "2016-11-11T18:07:39Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself of this. Its all bullshit isn’t it, all these people trying to blame Hillary, or blame Obama, or blame the non voters, or trying to pretend that Trump didn’t actually mean what he said, or trying to pretend that he won’t do what he said, all these people who can’t just own the fact that they are the reason their country just made an ass of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/54 "2016-11-11T18:14:09Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > He was trying to win the election by tapping into fear - a successful strategy. Now that the race is over we will start, and already are, seeing the truer Trump. Presidential. Respectful. Sometimes even humble. We saw it today. > > You fell for the smoke and mirrors. Was Trump also “pretending to be racist” when he was repeatedly discriminating against blacks when he owned apartment buildings? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/55 "2016-11-11T18:15:10Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Not \*all \*Trump supporters. But more than the population at large. “Some, I assume, are good people.” - Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/56 "2016-11-11T18:26:41Z")
Well, it is kind of a cheap shot because this isn’t Italy where you have 17 or so competing parties that each represent their own narrow viewpoint. In a 2-party system, each party is a massive coalition of strange bedfellows. So no matter who you vote for, you’re always going to be sharing a platform with some rotten people, there’s no way around it. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/57 "2016-11-11T18:34:14Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Well, it is kind of a cheap shot because this isn’t Italy where you have 17 or so competing parties that each represent their own narrow viewpoint. In a 2-party system, each party is a massive coalition of strange bedfellows. So no matter who you vote for, you’re always going to be sharing a platform with some rotten people, there’s no way around it. Bingo. I may be wrong, but I think I saw a terroristic homophobic muslim man sitting right behind Hillary at one of her rallies. I wouldn’t have said she was pro terror homophohic old bat just because that asshole showed up. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/58 "2016-11-11T18:40:15Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Bingo. > > I may be wrong, but I think I saw a terroristic homophobic muslim man sitting right behind Hillary at one of her rallies. > > I wouldn’t have said she was pro terror homophohic old bat just because that asshole showed up. Why don’t we stick to reality? I did see a terroristic indicted- for-murder cult-member African-American man with Trump at his rallys. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/59 "2016-11-11T18:43:41Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > This is probably true. But one person’s offence is another person’s well-meant criticism. > > For example, clearly the following is offensive and demonizing: “_You’re thinking of voting for Trump? Fuck off you inbred redneck racist_!” > > This however, while I have seen it or variations on it cause offence, seems to me to be in a different category: “_Trump is running a race-baiting campaign and has been endorsed by the KKK. If you vote for him you will have made common cause with racists and it will have the effect of encouraging his racist supporters._” Now, we’ve had some discussion earlier about the nature of reality, but I think the first sentence there is factual and the second is a reasonable extrapolation from those facts. There is no pejorative language aimed at the potential Trump voter. Nevertheless, statements like this, in my experience, are likely to be met with a response of “_How dare you call me a racist?! It’s your fault if I vote Trump now, because I’m so offended!_” > > So my question is, is there any way to phrase an argument based upon Trump’s use of race-baiting and his obvious appeal to racists that, in your opinion, might succeed with Trump supporters? Or is the whole topic - which, let’s face it, addresses the single biggest flaw Trump had as a candidate - out of bounds? This is just guilt by association. Who cares who the KKK likes or wants to be president? I’m sure the ones who vote Democrat preferred Hillary over Bernie because he is Jewish. That tells who nothing about how Hillary’s other supporters feel about Jews. Hitler liked dogs, that does not mean that PETA are a bunch of Nazis? If you have a point to make about Trump, you should make it and not just try to smear his supporters with guilt by association. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456/60 "2016-11-11T18:45:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Which, again, goes both ways: some people toss the word “racist” around upon hearing that someone is opposed to affirmative action; and some toss the word “racist” around upon hearing that someone thinks the jury got it right when it came to Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman; and some toss the word “racist” around upon simply hearing that someone is a Trump voter. There’s more to it than _that,_ likewise. Well right now I’m just talking about people who verbally or physically attack minority individuals in public, with obvious racist motives, or who deface public spaces (physical or virtual) with racist vitriol. I can give you some examples from the past 36 hours, if you really need me to help you find them [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-this-race-was-not-an-endorsement-of-racism/771456.md?page=4)