# No Turn on Red: Am I being an over-officious driver? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 14, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144 "2010-10-14T16:23:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/101 "2010-12-15T21:41:19Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Aw, jeez, this again? Look, the guy was an asshat for tailgating in icy conditions, sure - but is deliberately creating an accident situation _really_ the way to go? If he’s going to crash into me, I’d rather have it at a slow speed than a fast one. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/102 "2010-12-15T21:47:08Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > I would have done the same thing as you. me, too, with a somewhat eeeeeeeeeeelongated pause once the light turned green. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/103 "2010-12-15T21:52:32Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Aw, jeez, this again? Look, the guy was an asshat for tailgating in icy conditions, sure - but is deliberately creating an accident situation _really_ the way to go? The person doing the tailgating is the one creating an “accident situation.” ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/104 "2010-12-15T22:21:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The person doing the tailgating is the one creating an “accident situation.” Right on. Besides, what would you (purplehorseshoe) have done? _Speed up?_ (We’re talking about a 2-lane, 2-way road here, going across a bridge, even.) Oddly enough, when the road widened, this dude pulled out to pass as I expected, but he passed so slowly and kept going for the next mile near speed limit that he certainly wasn’t in a hurry. He was just a really bad driver with no awareness of conditions. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/105 "2010-12-15T23:18:13Z")
I’ve come to hate right on red. I’m old enough to remember when it was introduced and orginally people followed the spirit of the law which was “if there’s no one around, make the turn”. It was not “if you can beat the guy coming who has the right of way, make your move”. It has degenerated into the latter. I’ve had instances where I have an arrow to make a left turn, only to have assholes opposite me make the right-on-red in front of me, ignoring the red arrow they have. It’s times like that when I wish a high speed garbage truck would take out one of those scumbags. Just let me have my freakin’ right-of-way. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/106 "2010-12-16T01:38:45Z")
On my way home tonight I stopped at a No Turn on Red stop (indicated by a red arrow traffic light), in part because of this thread. It pissed of the guybehind me, though, who leaned on his horn. One second later the light turned green, and I turned. He zoomed around me. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/107 "2010-12-16T01:43:55Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > On my way home tonight I stopped at a No Turn on Red stop (indicated by a red arrow traffic light), in part because of this thread. This may be regional, but when I took drivers’ ed in NH, I was taught that a red arrow doesn’t mean anything that a red light doesn’t, ie unless there’s a sign, right turn is still legal. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/108 "2010-12-16T02:51:51Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > (my emphasis) > > Assuming you do really literally mean a couple of minutes of this, would you have been upset if someone honked at you from behind, after say, 15 seconds? That seems like a reasonable amount of time to determine whether someone has a real intention or not. Sorry, I missed this question from October - yeah, it was a couple of minutes. The reason I waited so long is that it is a $500 ticket here for interfering with a pedestrian in a crosswalk, and this was in an active school zone - tickets doubled, with a cop sitting right there, and the kid standing right at the crosswalk, looking across the road. For $1000, I would have sat there for most of the day. I wish pedestrians (and parents need to teach their kids this) would be aware of when they’re standing right next to a crosswalk. Car drivers are OBLIGATED to stop for pedestrians if they can safely; I believe that pedestrians also have an obligation to not hang around crosswalks if they aren’t intending to cross. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/109 "2010-12-16T03:17:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > While rolling through a stop sign (or a red light where there is right on red) may seem fine, Mr. Roadshow has published plenty of testimonials from bicyclists who nearly got or actually got hit by people doing this. While stopped at a red light on my bicycle, I was run down by a car turning right and rolling through a red light. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/110 "2010-12-16T03:25:26Z")
Next time, just toss it in reverse, hit the gas, and then sue the bastard for causing you whiplash by not stopping in time. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/111 "2010-12-16T04:09:42Z")
> [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](#): > > This may be regional, but when I took drivers’ ed in NH, I was taught that a red arrow doesn’t mean anything that a red light doesn’t, ie unless there’s a sign, right turn is still legal. Looks like it’s ok in MA as well: > [@ma.gov](#): > > such prohibition shall be effective when a sign is erected at such intersection giving notice thereof No indication that anything other than a sign prohibits the turn. > **[The 194th General Court of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts](https://malegislature.gov)** ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/112 "2010-12-16T04:26:08Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, that is one of the most ridiculous things i’ve ever heard, because that rule effectively makes the installation of a red arrow (as opposed to a regular red light) completely pointless. > > The idea of a red arrow is, in my experience, precisely to differentiate the rules from those applying to a red light. You can turn right after stopping on a red light, but the presence of the arrow is designed specifically to ensure that you won’t turn right on red. Why bother having a red arrow if it doesn’t actually serve any purpose that distinguished it from a regular red light? In states where it is legal to turn right after stopping on a red arrow (which include every state I’ve ever owned a car in), the reason for making it an arrow instead of a ball is to warn traffic that it is a turn-only lane, and they may not go straight. Otherwise, people may pull up to the light, then realize their mistake and attempt to merge in the middle of the intersection when the light turns green. If you have an arrow, you may only go in the direction of the arrow (unless there is a green arrow AND a green ball). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144/113 "2010-12-16T07:01:49Z")
In a similar situation, a friend of mine got off his motorcycle, walked back to the other car and asked them politely if there was a problem. He did this all very slowly, so that the light went though a complete cycle and they had to wait for the next green. **septimus** , OTOH, has become a coward in old age. I still remember a car coming to a full stop in front of me on a freeway overpass, backing up when I backed up, and reaching for something in his glovebox. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-turn-on-red-am-i-being-an-over-officious-driver/557144.md?page=5)