# No two democracies have ever gone to war with each other - true? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 20, 2001, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330 "2001-11-20T02:35:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/1 "2001-11-20T02:35:04Z")
I heard this stated as a fact. I know there have been territorial disputes eg Turkey/Greece over Cyprus, Pakistan/India over Kashmir but has there ever been a full scale war between two democracies? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/2 "2001-11-20T02:37:51Z")
Do civil wars count? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/3 "2001-11-20T02:45:11Z")
How about the 1982 war between Britain and Argentina over the Falkland Islands? With regards to the “full scale” qualifier, I suggest you ask the casualties. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/4 "2001-11-20T02:52:19Z")
Could 1982 Argentina truly be called a democracy? ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/5 "2001-11-20T02:55:50Z")
And I’d guess we’d want to limit this to _functioning_ democracies, as Hitler was elected. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/6 "2001-11-20T02:56:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ringo \* > \*\*Could 1982 Argentina truly be called a democracy? \*\* “Fascist dictatorship” would be more like it! ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/7 "2001-11-20T02:59:24Z")
Depends on how you define monarchy. Was Britain in 1812 a monarchy with democratic overtones? How about in 1862, when they nearly went to war with the US over the takeover of one of their ships (Confederate representatives were aboard and taken off; there were Union hawks who actually advocated starting a war with Britain, as if Lincoln didn’t have enough troubles already.) Then, what about the various India-Pakistan conflicts? India is certainly a democracy, while Pakistan has moved back and forth between that and rule-by-generals. BTW, Argentina was under rule-by-generals in '82, and IIRR, losing the war was instrumental in bringing them down. ---
**Author:** ![TBone2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@TBone2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBone2)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/8 "2001-11-20T03:00:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*Do civil wars count? \*\* **erislover** has a point. Couldn’t it be said that a democracy once went to war with itself? Didn’t a democratic United States once war with a democratic Confederate States? ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/9 "2001-11-20T03:02:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Do civil wars count? no, because thats a war between _one_ democracy. ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/10 "2001-11-20T03:16:41Z")
As noted, Hitler was elected. And Yugoslavia was/is a democracy–or is that not a full-scale war? I think the truth of the “fact” depends on how the terms are defined. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/11 "2001-11-20T03:27:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by johnson \* > \*\*As noted, Hitler was elected. And Yugoslavia was/is a democracy–or is that not a full-scale war? I think the truth of the “fact” depends on how the terms are defined. \*\* Once the war began (1939), Germany was a Totalitarian state, the Nuremberg laws having been passed in 1933. So that rules out Nazi Germany. Yugoslavia was not a democracy, it was history. What was in its place was chaos. No go. [An extremely good article on this very subject.](http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/demowar.htm) Quote from the referenced site: > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]Cod Wars, 1958-61, 1973, 1975-6[/li]Democracies: Iceland vs. United Kingdom. > Rebuttal: No blood = no war. > [li]Border War, 1995[/li]Democracies: Ecuador vs. Peru. > Rebuttal: You call that a war? > Counter-rebuttal: Soldiers got killed. Yep, that’s a war. > Counter-Counterrebuttal: Also, President Fujimori of Peru had suspended the constitution in 1992, making himself a virtual dictator. > Counter-Countercounterrebuttal: Just as virtual reality isn’t reality, so a virtual dictator isn’t a dictator. It is usually considered legal for a democratic leader to exercize emergency powers in an emergency, isn’t it? > [/ul] I think he’s mentioned all possible democracy v. democracy wars, no matter how obscure (cod wars?) and he argues with himself. Very cool. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/12 "2001-11-20T03:30:03Z")
Here’s his take on the Kosovo War: > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]Kosovo War, 1999[/li]Democracies: The countries of NATO vs. Yugoslavia. > Rebuttal: Milosovic was a dictator. > Counter-rebuttal: In the legislative elections of Nov. 1996, Milosovic’s supporters won a mere 64 out of 138 seats in parliament, and control of government probably would have gone to the opposition had not infighting and internal divisions prevented them from claiming their place at the helm. In 1997, Milosovic was re-elected president by a plausible margin of 59% to 38% [n.1] which suggests that these elections were not entirely rigged either. In October 2000, a soundly beaten Milosovic actually conceded defeat after an apparently free presidential election. Sure it took a week or so of prodding to get him to vacate the presidential palace, but a concession is a concession nonetheless. > [/ul] I took Yugoslavia to mean the Soviet-era bloc nation, not Croatia. And I _do_ consider Milosovic to be a dictator, albeit a smart one. So there! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/13 "2001-11-20T03:34:14Z")
Well, whether it should count or not depends on what the premise of the OP is. If it’s just a technical point of interest, then maybe it doesn’t count. But if the point is to make the claim that democracies won’t get into wars with other democracies, then the civil war would be a valid counter-example. But even if you can’t find a ‘legitimate’ example it doesn’t prove anything other than that we haven’t had two democracies see a need to fight each other. Democratic government hasn’t been around all that long, especially in large numbers. So it may just be an accident of geography or a fluke of foreign relations that has kept the world’s democracies from attacking each other. Or it may be that most countries that became democratic were fostered by other democratic countries, and therefore were natural allies. It doesn’t seem inconceivable to me that we could wind up at war with say, India. Upon reflection, would the Spanish-American war count? I’m trying to recall the exact form of the Spanish government. It wasn’t a pure democracy, but it was a constitutional monarchy with established opposing political parties, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/14 "2001-11-20T03:34:40Z")
I didn’t mean Croatia–I meant the federation (or whatever it is) of Serbia and Montenegro–you know, Yugoslavia. Milosevic may have been a dictator, but he was elected in a contested election. And then he lost an election… So there! right back atcha… ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/15 "2001-11-20T03:45:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*Upon reflection, would the Spanish-American war count? I’m trying to recall the exact form of the Spanish government. It wasn’t a pure democracy, but it was a constitutional monarchy with established opposing political parties, wasn’t it? \*\* Well, here’s what my reference says: “In Spain, “the two major political parties alternated in power, not by election but by arrangement preceding elections.”” So, if you call that a democracy (and I don’t), I guess so. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by johnson_ > \*\*I didn’t mean Croatia–I meant the federation (or whatever it is) of Serbia and Montenegro–you know, Yugoslavia. > Milosevic may have been a dictator, but he was elected in a contested election. And then he lost an election… > > So there! right back atcha…\*\* Oh, OK. That’s right. Serbia and Montenegro … yeah. Thanks. 🙂 The only reason Milosevic left office was international pressures. In a democracy, peaceful transitions of power should happen _without_ NATO breathing bullets down your neck. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/16 "2001-11-20T04:06:09Z")
What about the Boer War, where Britain was basically at war with the republics of Transvaal and Orange Free State? ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/17 "2001-11-20T04:10:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by don’t ask \* > \*\*What about the Boer War, where Britain was basically at war with the republics of Transvaal and Orange Free State? \*\* I’m not sure how democratic any of those three countries were by today’s standards. EG, no votes for women. On a vaguely related note, didn’t McDonald’s used to claim that no 2 countries with McDonald’s restaurants had ever been to war with each other? I think the ex-Yugoslav chaos made this claim redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/18 "2001-11-20T04:25:31Z")
Not a democracy without universal suffrage, you say? I guess that eliminates the Peloponnesian War. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/19 "2001-11-20T09:16:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > \*\*Not a democracy without universal suffrage, you say? I guess that eliminates the Peloponnesian War. \*\* But Sparta wasn’t really a democracy anyway, since the assembly didn’t really have power. I think the point about the rarity of two democracies going to war is that in a democracy the assembly or an executive drawn from that assembly has to approve the war, and this is less likely than would be the case in a dictatorship or military oligarchy like Sparta. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330/20 "2001-11-20T09:18:36Z")
The Lacadaemonians (Spartans) were a gerontocracy, not a democracy, in any event. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-two-democracies-have-ever-gone-to-war-with-each-other-true/94330.md?page=2)