# No US flagged ship captured by pirates in 200 years? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 9, 2009, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483 "2009-04-09T06:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mrpayday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@mrpayday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrpayday)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/1 "2009-04-09T06:18:32Z")
Stated by Glenn Beck today. Is that true? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/2 "2009-04-09T06:34:25Z")
The Victims of the [Alabama](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Css_alabama) would probably disagree. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/3 "2009-04-09T07:24:36Z")
Not what was asked, but plenty of US-flagged _aircraft_ have been taken by pirates. I don’t see that there’s any fundamental legal or moral difference so, if Mr Beck is implying that this is evidence of some shocking new decline in the status or power of the US, I think he’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/4 "2009-04-09T08:16:30Z")
Don’t most merchant ships carry flags of convenience anyway? If most ships are registered out of Liberia and Cyprus, then the capture of a US flagged vessel is hardly a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/5 "2009-04-09T10:08:02Z")
Without dragging the discussion too far into GD territory, many observers consider Beck a poor source of factual information. (Whaddaya think, **Colibri**? Did I get away with it? ;)) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/6 "2009-04-09T16:25:00Z")
Here’s the quote from the [AP article:](http://www.mercurynews.com/politics/ci_12102230) "It was the first attack against a U.S.-flagged vessel off Africa since the days of the Barbary pirates more than 200 years ago, a maritime official said. " I don’t know anything about Glenn Beck – maybe he read this and got a little confused. Ed ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/7 "2009-04-09T16:45:33Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > The Victims of the [Alabama](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Css_alabama) would probably disagree. That flew a naval flag as a commissioned naval ship. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/8 "2009-04-09T16:51:30Z")
> [@thetruewheel](#): > > Without dragging the discussion too far into GD territory, many observers consider Beck a poor source of factual information. > > (Whaddaya think, **Colibri**? Did I get away with it? ;)) I have only a vague idea of who Glenn Beck is, but the point is not particularly relevant to the question in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/9 "2009-04-09T17:29:21Z")
What about the British actions which precipitated the War of 1812? Those would probably qualify as piracy, and were (slightly) less than 200 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/10 "2009-04-09T17:36:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What about the British actions which precipitated the War of 1812? Those would probably qualify as piracy, and were (slightly) less than 200 years ago. How do you figure that? If a foreign warship stops you & presses your men, that’s an act of war, not piracy. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/11 "2009-04-09T18:57:28Z")
The sentence has been couched in qualifiers that might make it factually true but irrelevant. The use of the words “US-flagged,” “captured,” and “ship” are intentionally misleading. As **First Amongst Daves** pointed out, relatively few ships travel international waters with the US Flag. And although capturing ships for ransom is the tactic the Somali pirates are using in recent years, most sea piracy has about armed robbery. A US cruise ship was attacked as recently as November 2008 and repelled the attackers. Another US-flagged cruise ship was attacked in 2005. A US oceanography research ship was attacked by pirates in 2001. There has been piracy in the last decade against large vessels in and around Singapore, in the Indian Ocean, in the China Sea, and even against smaller vessels in the Caribbean and the Mediterranean. There was rampant piracy against US fishing boats in the Caribbean in the 40s and 50s. Boysie Singh led gangs that would board ships, murder the crews, and take their equipment to resell in South America. Roberto Cofrresi was a famous pirate in the Caribbean in the 19th century, and he robbed US ships with impunity for a long time. Someone (Beck) ought to open a book or use the google. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/12 "2009-04-09T20:22:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What about the British actions which precipitated the War of 1812? Those would probably qualify as piracy, and were (slightly) less than 200 years ago. Or the Germans that stopped American ships in WWI & WWII. Since these. like the 1812 ones, happened before any declaration of war between the countries, they could certainly be considered piracy. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/13 "2009-04-09T20:39:42Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > The sentence has been couched in qualifiers that might make it factually true but irrelevant. The use of the words “US-flagged,” “captured,” and “ship” are intentionally misleading. As **First Amongst Daves** pointed out, relatively few ships travel international waters with the US Flag. And although capturing ships for ransom is the tactic the Somali pirates are using in recent years, most sea piracy has about armed robbery. A US cruise ship was attacked as recently as November 2008 and repelled the attackers. Another US-flagged cruise ship was attacked in 2005. A US oceanography research ship was attacked by pirates in 2001. > > There has been piracy in the last decade against large vessels in and around Singapore, in the Indian Ocean, in the China Sea, and even against smaller vessels in the Caribbean and the Mediterranean. There was rampant piracy against US fishing boats in the Caribbean in the 40s and 50s. Boysie Singh led gangs that would board ships, murder the crews, and take their equipment to resell in South America. Roberto Cofrresi was a famous pirate in the Caribbean in the 19th century, and he robbed US ships with impunity for a long time. > > Someone (Beck) ought to open a book or use the google. It came from the Associated Press, so blame them, not Beck. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/14 "2009-04-09T20:56:48Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > What about the British actions which precipitated the War of 1812? Those would probably qualify as piracy, and were (slightly) less than 200 years ago. > > Or the Germans that stopped American ships in WWI & WWII. Since these. like the 1812 ones, happened before any declaration of war between the countries, they could certainly be considered piracy. I believe a necessary element of piracy is that the attacking ship does not fly the flag of any nation or is breaking the laws of the nation whose flag it is flying. So the attacks preceding the War of 1812 and the World Wars were not piracy because the attacking ships were acting under their proper authorities. As **muldoonthief** says, they were acts of war. An act of war can be committed without declaring war. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/15 "2009-04-09T21:46:01Z")
[Roberto Cofresí](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Cofres%C3%AD#cite_note-Book-6) launched a career of pirating US ships in the Caribbean in 1818. I suspect there were other similar pirates active in the Carribean after 1809 as well, indeed I believe there was a concentrated anti-piracy campaign by teh US navy during the 1820’s, which suggests pirates were taking US ships up until at least that time. The AP claim that there haven’t been any such attacks _off the coast of Africa_ might still be true though. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/16 "2009-04-10T04:39:05Z")
> [@thetruewheel](#): > > Without dragging the discussion too far into GD territory, many observers consider Beck a poor source of factual information. > > (Whaddaya think, **Colibri**? Did I get away with it? ;)) Well, to be honest, the first time I saw Beck rant, I watched and when he finished, all I could say was “Stephen Colbert is funnier”. Then I realized Beck isn’t trying to be funny, so the apparent Insanity is more disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/17 "2009-04-10T04:59:25Z")
> [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](#): > > Don’t most merchant ships carry flags of convenience anyway? > > If most ships are registered out of Liberia and Cyprus, then the capture of a US flagged vessel is hardly a big deal. There are only about 200 US flaged ships today. So 1 of 200 would be unusal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/18 "2009-04-10T06:16:39Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I have only a vague idea of who Glenn Beck is, but the point is not particularly relevant to the question in the OP. Glenn Beck is a highly partisan conservative figure. He arouses visceral ire among liberals in the same way that Michael Moore does among conservatives. I was trying to say, without inciting a political flamewar, that he’s not a traditional inverted-pyramid journalist and that it wouldn’t surprise me if he had his facts wrong. But I didn’t want it to come off as _ad hominem_ name calling\*, which isn’t appropriate in GQ. \*Even though I personally can’t stand the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Outpits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4bbf92/32.png) [@Outpits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Outpits)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/19 "2009-04-10T10:16:50Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I believe a necessary element of piracy is that the attacking ship does not fly the flag of any nation or is breaking the laws of the nation whose flag it is flying. So the attacks preceding the War of 1812 and the World Wars were not piracy because the attacking ships were acting under their proper authorities. As **muldoonthief** says, they were acts of war. An act of war can be committed without declaring war. This is where the entire conversation bogs down IMO. The Barbary pirates, the basis of the OP’s question, often flew the Tripolitan flag and were certainly under the protection of the rulers of Tripoli. The most interesting thing about this piracy off Somalia is that the US warship responding was the USS Bainbridge. Capt (or Lt. at the time) Bainbridge was best known for losing his ship to the Tripolitan pirates of the Barbary coast. I just found it ironic that the USS Bainbridge seemed to be seeking 200 year old revenge against modern pirates. (In all fairness Bainbridge did more than acquit himself as commodore in the War of 1812.) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483/20 "2009-04-10T11:32:51Z")
I find it extremely difficult to believe that in the last one hundred years no American flagged small ship has not been taken by pirates in any part of the world. That would be unusual. But if you start putting enough conditions like “over a certain size” then you can get any result you want. This is one of those cases, like the “no wars between democracies”, where all you have to do is define the words to get the result you wanted in the first place. Not to mention that in any case the result is of little or no consequence and not any landmark turning point as someone would have you believe. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-us-flagged-ship-captured-by-pirates-in-200-years/492483.md?page=2)