# No way Russia could have fallen so far. . . **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 4, 2001, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-way-russia-could-have-fallen-so-far/85445 "2001-10-04T20:50:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-way-russia-could-have-fallen-so-far/85445/21 "2001-10-06T04:11:57Z")
Yup. I have a recollection of Putin recently admitting that the Russian economy was somewhere south of Portugal’s (sorry, no citation). Portugal is not a booming economy. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-way-russia-could-have-fallen-so-far/85445/22 "2001-10-06T04:35:41Z")
Okay, DJ, so you’re saying that you’re convinced that the Russian have more satellites, and nicer ones, than they say they do? That they’re just poor-mouthing themselves? Or are you saying that they’ve got $10 billion socked away somewhere that they’re deliberately not spending on new satellites? If #1–why would they want to do this? To put an enemy off-guard? Such as who? China? America? Do you think that NASA can’t just look out the window, so to speak, and see for themselves how many satellites Russia has up there, and what kind they are? Ditto for China. If #2–why would they want to do this? What are they doing with the extra money then? Vacation homes in Bermuda? This is from today’s news. [http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm\_415357.html](http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_415357.html) > [@](#): > > Crisis spurs Russia to increase its satellites > > Russia is to modernise its aging spy satellite fleet to get more information on rogue states like Afghanistan. > > Head of the country’s space forces admits the current fleet is “extremely insufficient”. > > He says surveillance data of Afghanistan is available, but those satellites providing it will soon be decommissioned. > > General Anatoly Perminov said: “In the nearest future, we will draft a program of intensive build-up of the satellite fleet and submit it to the defence ministry and the cabinet.” > > Story filed: 14:14 Thursday 4th October 2001 So, what, now that we’ve sniffed out their conspiracy to hide their satellites from us, they have to admit we got 'em dead to rights, and they’re gonna bring the satellites out from the closet where they’ve been hiding them? Playing with conspiracy theories is fun, but only up to a point. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-way-russia-could-have-fallen-so-far/85445/23 "2001-10-06T13:45:01Z")
**dj** , I didn’t make this sufficiently clear in my earlier post - When you’re talking about national priorities, and your choices are to: Build satellites and other expensive technology, - or - Keep the populace from revolting because they’re cold and hungry, which would _you_ choose? Unless you’re a serious looney, you’ll feed the people. I don’t think the Russians are looney. Politicians are, by nature, short-sighted. _Statesmen_ take the long view. It would have required a statesman to keep the Russian technical intelligence apparatus in shape, and Russian politicians have been too busy trying to just _stay_ in power to have time for that statesman stuff. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-way-russia-could-have-fallen-so-far/85445/24 "2001-10-07T04:37:08Z")
**Tranquilis** , you’re generally right about Russian government priorities being forced upon them. But you might have mentioned that staying in power requires giving the people some sense of pride and hope, too. The Soviet space program did that - it was a symbol of the results of the people’s sacrifices, an example of their abilities, and a representation of a brighter tomorrow. To some extent, that’s been true of the US and the other partners in NASA programs, too. They certainly still remember that feeling, and to a large degree its symbology is still applicable. A politician, much less a statesman, who tried to take that feeling of pride away would suffer for it. I do think that their keeping their program going as well as it has, including keeping Mir staffed for so long it became the butt of jokes in the West, has reflected a need to keep that sense of pride. Keeping that symbol in place, including subsidizing it, is IMHO a good investment by the US in keeping Russia relatively stable. Yes, they’ve let money-draining stuff with less public and governmental constituency go to hell, but the stuff Ivan Q. Public cares about is still there. That spirit may be lessening with time and with greater Russian public realization of their post-USSR situation. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-way-russia-could-have-fallen-so-far/85445/25 "2001-10-07T05:18:34Z")
No argument from me on that, **Elvis**. Well stated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-way-russia-could-have-fallen-so-far/85445.md?page=1)