# No, we're not fucking quaint. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459 "2002-04-24T23:50:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/61 "2002-04-26T04:33:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kal \* > **Duke** , when you lived over here did people poke fun of your accent? Did they make cracks about American food. Americans all being fat? America having little or no history or culture? Yes to the last three. Plus, that we all were gun nuts, that we couldn’t read, that we secretly wanted to control the world (mostly liberals that one), and worst of all, _that we had never heard of cricket_! No one made fun of my accent though, mainly because people couldn’t decide if I was from the US, Canada or Germany. Hence I managed to get a lot of “Jurgen the Student” jokes thrown at me, which I always found amusing. I also found it amusing that, after I’d lived there a few years and had picked up an English accent from my (now ex-)wife, sometimes people who didn’t know where I was from would start spouting anti-Americanisms at me. I wouldn’t tell them where I was from right away. I’d tell them about my cricket club and my D.Phil thesis on the early English Bible in East Anglia. _Then_ I’d tell them where I was from. > [@](#): > > If they did, were you pissed off? I was not at all pissed off by anyone’s _comments_. What I found disturbing were the comments to my (English-born) wife like “How could you possibly marry someone from there?” Well, sometimes the people who would over-patiently describe the British political system to me when we were discussing politics. But then I would just over-patiently describe the 13th-century origins of Parliament back to them. > [@](#): > > My wife’s been here for two years, heard all that crap, and it’s pissed her (and me) off - Along with jokes about her being disabled, fat, part Native American, an immigrant and my being ‘Gyppo’. So certain people in England are insensitive, rude and racist (which, trust me, I know all too well) and this has something to do with Americans commenting on the state of English food? Please. Calling someone a bad cook is not an insult on the level of a racial epithet. > [@](#): > > Posting a drive-by just to take a cheap shot is not only unfunny but also jerkish, offensive and ignorant. My comment was a “drive-by”? Obviously you missed my earlier post in the thread. Come to think of it, you’ve missed the hundreds of posts I’ve made at my time on the Board which have had great things to say about my time in England, the people I met there and the things I learned there. More to the point: What is so “offensive and ignorant” about saying that a country’s food is not as good as another’s? English food is getting better every year, and I will heartily agree with that. But English food, especially in the North and where I lived in Oxford, still has a long way to go. That is **not** a stain on the English character. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter if what you say is true, **in general** , or not.Making fun of a person’s nationality should be as big a no-no as making fun of a person’s sexuality or race. So, are you actually agreeing with me, after all the noise you’ve made about saying a country’s food is not as good as another’s being such a bad insult? Again, tell me how it is that talking about a country’s food is “making fun” of another person. You challenged us that “anyone who comes out with that [English food isn’t good] hasn’t been to England,” then, “backed it up” with a link to, of all places, the BBC Food website! I strongly suspect **you** were the one planning a “drive-by”–by angling for a negative comment, then jumping all over anyone who did, accusing them of racism or something uncomfortably near it. I didn’t say that English food wasn’t as good as food in other European countries because it’s a stereotype. I said it because in my experience it was reality. Those pictures on the BBC website look good, but my experience in England is that far too much food consumed there is tinned, packaged and processed (just like in America, in point of fact. Does that make me biased against Americans too?) There are good restaurants in London, and I went to them as much as I could, but I also went to restaurants and pubs where I was variously served tinned soup advertised as freshly-made, pies that still had ice in the middle, and meals that were frankly inedible. Those criticisms of the bulk of English cooking are shared by my favourite cooking writers, Nigel Slater and Pat Chapman…and they are both English! Now, I am glad that I did not say anything about the weather too… ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/62 "2002-04-26T07:45:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kal \* > \*\***Francesca[/BAlso to be added to the list is mimicking the British accent (or for that matter Canadian - eh?, Australian - g’day)** Nah, we actually say “g’day”. Quite a bit, in fact. Mimic away! Try speaking through your nose for an authentic nasal tone. 🙂 On the other hand… > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by manhattan_\*\* > Freaking _Australia_ has more up-to-date bankruptcy laws than y’all.\*\* … THIS is offensive. ---
**Author:** ![micilin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8c91f0/32.png) [@micilin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/micilin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/63 "2002-04-26T12:52:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hemlock \* > But I **am** 🙂 All I can say is… ‘Blimey!’. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/64 "2002-04-26T14:11:53Z")
Well put **Duke**. However, using well reasoned logical replies unfortunately does not always work with some people. My favorites are those who cry stereotype over the most minor point- then trot out their own bitter stereotypes in response. Ever notice nobody complains about positive stereotyping? The average perceived intellegence of a person is increased by their having a English accent or by the fact that the person is English. Never seen anyone complain about that- “leave me alone- just because I have an English accent does not bloody well mean I know anything useful.” Compare and contrast that to having a Southern (U.S.) accent- Einstein would be still stuck in that dang patent office job if he had a good old Southern drawl. 😛 Of course I am sure someone will manage to complain about this too . . . . _-me_ ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/65 "2002-04-26T14:18:53Z")
**Duke** , firstly I wasn’t saying that you _personally_ did a drive-by. My posts were pretty much about them though. Obviously just slagging off British cooking isn’t up there with ‘_insert racial group of choice_ are all stupid’ or something, but it is still down-right rude. I’ll rephrase my question to you, instead of “Did it piss you off?”, how about, “Did you think they were jerks?” What I was attempting to get across was that when people post in a thread and someone pops up a few posts later with (what is normally) a drive-by, in a dismissive, mocking tone – It doesn’t matter if the comment is about the nationality of the poster, where they work, what State they live in or how many arms they have. It’s still patronising, ignorant and that is fucking jerkish. I concentrated on the mocking of the British because that’s what I am, therefore it’s the main one that pisses me off. It’s also what the OP was about. Calling Britain quaint is not particulary offensive, saying that British food is bad is not particulary offensive. But to post in a thread just to make a crack about the country being quaint, or food bad is. > [@](#): > > You challenged us that “anyone who comes out with that [English food isn’t good] hasn’t been to England,” then, “backed it up” with a link to, of all places, the BBC Food website! You misquoted me. I said > [@](#): > > **I’m guessing** anyone who comes out with that crack hasn’t been to Britain. Tell you what, go to [www.bbc.co.uk/](http://www.bbc.co.uk/) food - browse a while. Does British food look bad? I’ll concede that I should have used “most people” instead of “anyone”. I don’t understand why you seem surprised that I included a link to the BBC Food website. What should I have done, sent everyone a cookbook? Shipped everyone over here and force fed them? Started a Toad-in the-hole secret santa? > [@](#): > > I strongly suspect you were the one planning a “drive-by”–by angling for a negative comment, then jumping all over anyone who did, accusing them of racism or something uncomfortably near it. I ain’t accusing anyone of racism, but I do think that posting dismissive little stereotyping one-liners that make fun of a person’s nationality are as unfunny – and jerkish - as doing the same about a person’s race, sexuality or religion. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/66 "2002-04-26T17:32:19Z")
**Kal** : I still just fail to see how contending that English food could use improvement (an argument with which, as I mention, many English food writers agree) is “making fun of a person’s nationality.” I think we will have to agree to disagree on this point. But to follow on from **elf6c** ’s point–the English benefit from a number of “positive stereotypes” too. This is something I’ve never understood. If I have a performance appraisal, and my boss lists five things I’ve done well and one thing which could use improvement, that’s a good appraisal. My opinion, based on my time in England, is that the English are friendly, humorous, intellectual, compassionate, and honest, but not the best (or worst) cooks in the world. That’s a very good report card, one would think. I wouldn’t give my own country such high marks, sad to say. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/67 "2002-04-26T18:13:46Z")
Firstly, I’ve already done so by email but I’d like to publicly apologise to **Francesca** for hijacking her thread. **Duke** : An apology to you too, if you took my previous post to be a personal attack - that was unintentional. You are totally correct; contending that English food could use improvement is not taking the piss. But there are certain places to do so. A thread about British cooking maybe? My rant (which included far more things than just food, BTW) was about ‘humourous’ comments that use stereotypes and have nothing to do with the topic in hand. Posting a comment about food/teeth/warm beer/ in that situation is, IMHO, insulting. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/68 "2002-04-26T19:09:25Z")
Actually saying people’s comments are “ignorant” and “fucking jerkish” is a personal attack. Period. Why did you decide to hop into to the thread and start blasting away at people? Like Duke, I am baffled at how you reached the result that someone’s nationality was besmerched by mentioning that the cuisine was subpar. Then even more baffling, you with a straight face claim “but I do think that posting dismissive little stereotyping one-liners that make fun of a person’s nationality are as unfunny – and jerkish - as doing the same about a person’s race, sexuality or religion.” One as we repeatly have pointed out to you, nobody’s was. Worse, your saying pointing out that the food was bad now is equal to religious or racial discrimination? Are you frigging kidding me? With all of the horrible things done in the world- and some of the hateful tactless things people say, you are with a straight face trying to say that pointing out bad food is **EQUAL**. Spare me. I have no clue why your trying to pick a fight- but you are WAY offbase here. Your hypersentive attitude, yet all too eager to insult posting style is sure to be a big hit here. Welcome to the forums. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/69 "2002-04-26T19:28:33Z")
**elf6c** , fuck off. Stick your welcome where the sun don’t shine while you’re at it. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/70 "2002-04-26T19:33:38Z")
You’ll have to stop exporting all that “Keeping Up Appearances”, “Are You Being Served”, “Faulty Towers”, Shakespeare, Guiness, fish and chips and stuff if you really want us to believe it. Oh, and Sir Anthony Hopkins, Dame Judi Dench, etc. It all is really so… ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/71 "2002-04-26T19:47:03Z")
Thanks **Kal**! I wasn’t sure if you were a foul mouthed troll or not- your post clears up any confusion in that regard. Hugs and kisses, _-me_ ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/72 "2002-04-26T21:33:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jinwicked \* > \*\*I personally have an oil derrick in my backyard, and some cows down the street. (No, really. There are cows about five minutes away from my house. And I live in the suburbs.) \*\* I can look out back from my patio and see Longhorn Cattle just on the other side of the barbed-wire fence. Inside the city limits. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/73 "2002-04-26T22:04:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Narrad \* > \*\* On the other hand… > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by manhattan Freaking Australia has more up-to-date bankruptcy laws than y’all. > > … THIS is offensive.\*\* Why? Until the mid-90’s, Australian bankruptcy law was _horrible_. Familiar with Linter Textiles? Bond Brewing? The country’s receivership was a freaking disaster that was completely unprepared for the global economy, especially as regards cross-border capital. Now it’s better (although relatively untested – it will get better still as caselaw under the new system increases). It’s no different than saying that L.A.'s subway system is inadequate or that it rains a lot in Seattle. It is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Tansu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@Tansu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tansu)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/74 "2002-04-26T22:11:26Z")
Is it possible to stop snarking at each other here, in the Pit?. There was a small misunderstanding between **Duke** , **Kal** and **elf6c** regarding the intent of their posts. the fact that this is the Pit should not make it impossibe to recognise a misunderstanding and move on. Oh, and carry on eating my quaint quaint - and move down to my arse, whe you feel like it. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/75 "2002-04-26T22:26:32Z")
This is the Pit? There’s been so little swearing in here of late, I thought it might be GD. Oh wait–you said “arse” in your post. Right, then, carry on 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/76 "2002-04-27T01:44:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\* Why? Until the mid-90’s, Australian bankruptcy law was _horrible_. Familiar with Linter Textiles? Bond Brewing? The country’s receivership was a freaking disaster that was completely unprepared for the global economy, especially as regards cross-border capital. > > Now it’s better (although relatively untested – it will get better still as caselaw under the new system increases). > > It’s no different than saying that L.A.'s subway system is inadequate or that it rains a lot in Seattle. It is what it is. \*\* Bullshit, **Manhattan**. Had you said something along the lines of “Australia, which for too long, had archaic bankruptcy laws, has finally changed them. You guys should too”, then fine. But your post was much more general than that. It _was_ offensive. Unnecessarily offensive, as opposed to good ol’ fashioned BBQ PIT offensive. :wally ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/77 "2002-04-27T02:22:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by featherlou \* > \*\*… Being Canadian is quaint? It’s our freakin’ nationality, you pompous, overbred, undermannered tightass. It’s not “quaint”. \*\* YEAH! YEAAAAH! This is right about what I was going to say. Good on ya, **featherlou**. Now watch as I move to the US and get thought of as ‘quaint’ by Americans, who I will then kill. Poor Dave. ---
**Author:** ![Waldo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Waldo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waldo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/78 "2002-04-27T04:01:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Which British accent? I bet that we’ve got even more variation in our accent than you have in yours. I think I’ve seen it mentioned on this board that Michael Cain in fact has a rather low-class accent, despite what Americans think. I’ve also heard that on “Frazier”, Daphne’s family is obviously from all over England, but the Americans are oblivious. Can I get a confirmation? ---
**Author:** ![shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/79 "2002-04-27T04:54:29Z")
About Americans being oblivious to British accents: I’m certainly no expert on variations in British accents, but the boy who read the part of Macbeth this year in class wanted to read in a British accent, which was fine…until he busted out with the John Lennon voice. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459/80 "2002-04-27T05:01:53Z")
**Manny** , our bankruptcy laws **still** suck; just ask anyone who’s been affected by the collapse of Ansett, HIH, Andersen, or One.tel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-were-not-fucking-quaint/105459.md?page=5)