# No WMD's? Strike 1. No Saddam/Qaeda connection? Strike 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 9, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715 "2003-06-09T20:40:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/101 "2003-06-14T14:27:30Z")
I think the third swing is a home run and I will tell you why. We go to the middle east beat up their biggist bully make up some weak story why we did it. All of the muslim countries now are afraid we we invade them and know if America gets attacked again we will just make up another story go in and kill people and topple the government in power and take their oil or whatever. This is a very good incentive for the middle east governments to stop the terrorist plots against America. The average American knows Iraq was a message to the rest of middle east. Plus it is better in an election to be known for kicking too mush ass than not enough. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/102 "2003-06-14T15:05:19Z")
All this has done is show mid-east nations that if they had nuclear weapons, the US would not be invading them. Look at North Korea, it has pretty much defended itself by using MAD style tactics on S Korea. There is no real prospect of invading N Korea due to its ability to wreak terrible damage using rocket launchers and the like on Seoul, and that is just with conventional weapons. So now mid-east nations will be looking to pay N Korea most handsomely for delivery systems and atomic warheads, and since N Korea is broker than a broke thing… The US has provided the mid east with very urgent reasons to go down this road, WTG USA! ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/103 "2003-06-14T15:47:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by casdave \* > \*\*All this has done is show mid-east nations that if they had nuclear weapons, the US would not be invading them. > > Look at North Korea, it has pretty much defended itself by using MAD style tactics on S Korea. > > There is no real prospect of invading N Korea due to its ability to wreak terrible damage using rocket launchers and the like on Seoul, and that is just with conventional weapons. > > So now mid-east nations will be looking to pay N Korea most handsomely for delivery systems and atomic warheads, and since N Korea is broker than a broke thing… > > The US has provided the mid east with very urgent reasons to go down this road, WTG USA! \*\* All of these countries have wanted and tried to get nukes long before 9/11/01 . So here is the plan you want us to follow. Let them accuire nukes then let them send over terrorists with nukes to kill us. Then we will do nothing do nothing but cry and blame Bush. Sounds like the same old liberal plan to me. There is no nuclear program in north Korea bush made it up he lies about everything. And the story all these other countries are tring to make nuclear weapons, it’s all bush making up lies. We have nothing to fear but bush making up stories about nuclear weapons. As a matter of fact I don’t believe there is even such a thing as nuclear weapons its all just a bush lie. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/104 "2003-06-14T16:13:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Reeder_ > **How do we know he didn’t flee?** Giving up control, I think, was the idea. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Ben_ > \*\*Bush, et al, presented the world with the argument that Iraq represented an imminent threat to the US as the justification (the only legal one) for the war. \*\* How did this work in Afghanistan? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/105 "2003-06-14T16:33:32Z")
\>\> How did this work in Afghanistan? AFghanistan was the home of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda which _were_, in fact, behind 9/11. With so much government propaganda some people have lost track of reality. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/106 "2003-06-14T18:24:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by urban1z \* > \*\* I can’t find the cite but Iraq was said to have thousands of tons of this, hundreds of liters of that and a delivery system which could be used to attack the US. \*\* > [@](#): > > [_whitehouse.gov_](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html) > The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons **sufficient to produce** over 25,000 liters of anthrax – enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn’t accounted for that material. He’s given no evidence that he has destroyed it. > > The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had **materials sufficient to produce** more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin – enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn’t accounted for that material. He’s given no evidence that he has destroyed it. > > Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the **materials to produce** as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He’s not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them. > > U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them – despite Iraq’s recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He’s given no evidence that he has destroyed them. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/107 "2003-06-14T18:28:52Z")
> **[The White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/)** > > Learn how the Biden-Harris Administration is tackling our nation’s challenges and building our country back better from this crisis. Yes, we know where the lies are coming from. That’s the problem. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/108 "2003-06-14T22:39:00Z")
> [@](#): > > All of these countries have wanted and tried to get nukes long before 9/11/01 . …and now they have the very real justification for getting them. Posession of them is less likely to lead to an agressive attack by the USA, as proven by N Korea. It’s now very clear that Bush lied about Saddam Hussains WMD, this is what Arabs will feel. They will also be well aware that they cannot begin to defend themselves from the lies of a US president, since the US has such overwhelming military, technical and material superiority. The choice for Arabs is stark, toe the US line or be destroyed, or acquire Nuclear devices, at least the US will not invade. Now which of those will the rabble rousers in the mid-east go for ? How will moderate Arabs counter such rhetoric in their own nations ? When other Arab nations try to acquire Nuclear devices, will the US attack them ? Just how much of the mid-east is the US willing to occupy ? Think the world is a safer place ? ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/109 "2003-06-15T00:04:14Z")
Now which of those will the rabble rousers in the mid-east go for ? Any that are plotting to kill US citizens. Don’t worry Jolly old England is safe. How will moderate Arabs counter such rhetoric in their own nations ? To kill the religious nut cases in their countries to save their own asses. When other Arab nations try to acquire Nuclear devices, will the US attack them ? Yes, so either way they must do as we say. If they try to nuke us we will kill every last thing that walks or crawls the earth in whatever country that goes against the USA. Just how much of the mid-east is the US willing to occupy ? If the terrorist nations don’t stop terrorism against the USA all of them if need be. Think the world is a safer place ? They should have thought of that before they attacked us. The fight is on and we here in the USA are not going to take it from these religious fanatics. They lose. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/110 "2003-06-15T01:25:05Z")
Let me make sure I understand you correctly, **BM**. If Saddam Hussein had nuked NYC, you would have laid waste to Iraq with nuclear weapons? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/111 "2003-06-15T01:35:49Z")
Hard to say. We were attacked by a bunch of Syrians, so naturally we invaded Iraq. Makes perfect sense. If Saddam had attacked New York, most likely we would have fried Belgium. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/112 "2003-06-15T01:37:01Z")
“A bunch of Saudis” ooopsy. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/113 "2003-06-15T01:42:15Z")
Mmmmmm… fried Belgium… ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/114 "2003-06-15T02:26:05Z")
Belgian waffles. That’s the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![gouda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c77e96/32.png) [@gouda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gouda)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/115 "2003-06-15T04:16:41Z")
And their beer too. Mmmmmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/116 "2003-06-15T06:38:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BeatenMan \* > We go to the middle east beat up their biggist bully make up some weak story why we did it. All of the muslim countries now are afraid we we invade them and know if America gets attacked again we will just make up another story go in and kill people and topple the government in power and take their oil or whatever. So you don’t have a problem with the United States being seen as a nation of liars and psychotic nuts who will lie, cheat, steal, and start wars on whatever looney whim strikes us? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/117 "2003-06-15T07:29:10Z")
I am just waiting for S.Hussien to surface in the south of France, to be followed by calls from **Rjung, Sailor,** and the other members of the herd, to restore Saddam to power. That is what the logical conclusion of their thinking is. If the war was ‘unjust’, then remedies must be implemented! It doesn’t matter what Bush said or didn’t say. The war was either justified or not justified. GW could have said that we are invading Iraq to take all of their pink unicorns, it wouldn’t change the facts. Saddam was a evil man. Saddam represented a threat to American interests in the region. Saddam represented a threat to global interests in the region. Knowing what we know about Saddam, and yet still oppossing his ouster, boggles the mind and show a definite lack of a moral compass. But it also show the illogical extreme some (many) are willing to go to, simply to _try_ to pin some blame on GW and/or America. I am sure there will be a few tired old squeels of , “But there were other ways of dealing with him!”. Really? Like what? Fling a wicked UN resolution at him? A few more sanctions? No. The people who propose such stupid half-measures _know_ that they would not have worked. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/118 "2003-06-15T08:00:11Z")
Perhaps we should have waited until inspection processes were complete, or maybe gone for the UN resolution after Hussain had refused further inspections. That way there would have been wider support across the world for an Iraq invasion, and probably would have included some Arab states as well. The war was unjustified becasue its premise was that the US and the West was under direct and immediate threat, and that has been proven to be false.The fact that Hussain is/was a monster has only become an issue for starting the war when the WMD thing started to look shaky and excuses had to be found. Human rights were certainly not at the top of the pile when it came to invading Iraq. Arabs will believe human rights had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it, rather is was about oil, nothing else. Arab opinion is important in this region, maybe you can think of some way to sell this war to them **Brutus** Saddam was an evil man, so by extension this must justify war on Burma, the SLORC ruling council are rather horrible, and maybe China’s abuse of the local population in Tibet, or perhaps we should clear out the assholes in Sierra Leone who make Husain seem like Princess Daisy, with their acts of incredible brutality, or should we perhaps sort things out in Central African Repubic, because the tiny UN force that is going in cannot possibly police such a large country effectively. Oh, best not forget Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe who has been using food aid as a weapon to undermine local farmers, selcetively distributing it, murdering politcal oppenents, torture and pretty much what Saddam Hussain used to do. The real problem with this war is that your head of state, and that of mine, lied, knew they were lying, and persisted in lying. Thier lies will cost me a lot of taxes, their lies have cost the lives of service personnel, their lies have used up all the sympathy the world had for the US pos 9/11, their lies have cost the US/UK a huge amount of credibility and this will make it difficult indeed to gain support for future policing operations. Your argument of how would we have got rid of Hussain is misdirected, he should not have been supported by the West in the first place, we have known for decades what he has been capable of, but it suited our purpose to remain in his postion whilst he murdered and abused his own population and that of Iran. Perahps we should look at our leaders more closely and see who they are getting into bed with, maybe we should take some responsibility for our actions, but I can’t see much of that happening, we should prosecute the companies that have broken sanctions, from all nations, we should prosecute our political leaders who ensured that Saddam Hussain was equipped to supress his people, but I cannot see that happening. ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/119 "2003-06-15T13:03:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*So you don’t have a problem with the United States being seen as a nation of liars and psychotic nuts who will lie, cheat, steal, and start wars on whatever looney whim strikes us? :eek: \*\* The looney whim is the those we suspect want to attack the united states. If you play ball with the united states you have nothing to worry about. Say you have a banner at your airport that says “Death to America” you just might make the looney whim list. You are either with us or against us. If you are against us better watch out for that looney whim it just might come and get you. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715/120 "2003-06-15T13:46:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BeatenMan \* > \*\*The looney whim is the those we suspect want to attack the united states. If you play ball with the united states you have nothing to worry about. Say you have a banner at your airport that says “Death to America” you just might make the looney whim list. You are either with us or against us. If you are against us better watch out for that looney whim it just might come and get you. \*\* It’s pretty clear you don’t think it’s a good idea to cross the good ol’ U.S. of A. It’s also not a good idea to cross the Mafia. Nor is it a good idea to cross a drunken loon who walks into a bar with a shotgun. The good ol’ U.S. of A. isn’t looking a hell of a lot different from the Mafia or the drunken loon at the moment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wmds-strike-1-no-saddam-qaeda-connection-strike-2/180715.md?page=7)