# No wonder the English Language is going to hell \[b\]Astroboy\[/b\]. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148 "2002-04-01T01:46:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Toaster52](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/50afbb/32.png) [@Toaster52](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toaster52)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/41 "2002-04-01T20:04:51Z")
Like, I’m certainly not perfect in, like, speaking. Lord knows that I, like, \*mess up \*all the time. I’ve been in Toastmasters for, like, 25 \*\* YEARS \*\*, and for the life of me, I’ll still, like, constantly mess up my sentences to where the, like, grammar is all wrong. Like, I practice and practice and practice and I’ll still get it wrong; like, using _me_ rather than _one_ when I’m speaking about myself as, like, an example and stuff. it’s, like, a constant battle to, like, improve myself to where I can be understood. But I can always go to, like, the Mall and pick up on all the latest, like, vernaculars and know that, like, deep inside myself I, like, have the, like, capability to, like, get my message across. Ya know? \*runs to the wall and bangs, like, my head against it… …like, repeatedly…\* ---
**Author:** ![Merhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Merhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/42 "2002-04-01T20:48:55Z")
For extra credit: Accept/Except I accept the fact that I’m pretty good at word usage except for affect and effect (and thank you for not asking that :)) Excise (adj. vs. verb) The excise tax manages to excise just another piece from my diminishing wealth. gender/sex I prefer to have sex with humans of my own gender. celibate/chaste Although I’m celibate, I’m hardly chaste. and for the post-grads: which/that That which doesn’t kill me will make me stronger. (OK, OK, I couldn’t resist, but this **IS** what got me to post in the first place :D) Isn’t it people that and things which? OK, I don’t have a post-graduate degree, shoot me 😉 Mike P.S. I did get the as/like thing 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/43 "2002-04-01T21:07:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*(What would the alternative be? _Winston tastes well_?) \*\* How about: Winston tastes well, while your lungs go to hell. (Truth in advertising:D And I’m only, like, posting this once, 'cause I’m all, “like, who needs to say it two times?” Ya know?😛 “Hello, I must be going.” --Groucho Marx ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/44 "2002-04-01T21:10:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Merhouse \* > \*\*gender/sex > > I prefer to have sex with humans of my own gender. \*\* There are a couple of possible distinctions, used differently by different people: 1) yours, 2) “nouns have gender and people have sex;” 3) the Queer-theory version, in which sex is physical and gender is societal. > [@](#): > > **celibate/chaste** My dictionary gives “celibate” as “commited to abstention from sexual relations and from marriage, esp. for religious reasons; 2) abstaining from sexual relations”, and “chaste” as “abstaining from extramarital, or from all, sexual relations”. So they can indeed be synonymous, although one can include sex within marriage and the other can exclude it. > [@](#): > > \*\*which/that [/b[ “That” is restrictive, “which” isn’t. Dogs that are large are dangerous (only such dogs); cats, which are small, are better pets (cats in general). ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/45 "2002-04-01T21:11:35Z")
**That** introduces a restrictive clause and is not set off with commas. The report that Ken wrote is shocking. **Which** introduces a non-restrictive clause and is usually set off with commas. The report, which was well-written, is shocking. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/46 "2002-04-01T21:53:54Z")
So, HappyHeathen, you still use words like “shoppe” and “ye”? Heck, I’ll give you ten SPOOFE points if you can give me the proper pronunciation of the latter. (Extra credit my sweet patooty… when did _you_ of all people become the teacher for the masses?) ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/47 "2002-04-01T22:59:40Z")
Matt - you and your poor, deluded dictionaries… Sex: Female, Male Gender: Feminine, Masculine Celibate: refraining from marriage Chaste: refraining from sexual activity **Merhouse** - congrats! **SPOOFE** : bite me ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/48 "2002-04-01T23:06:37Z")
And why should I take your word over that of the dictionaries? ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/49 "2002-04-01T23:32:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by happyheathen \* > \*\*Celibate: refraining from marriage > Chaste: refraining from sexual activity > \*\* Maybe, in the light of recent headlines, a good mnemonic would be “priests are all celibate, but not necessarily chaste.” Izzat a hijack?🆒 ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/50 "2002-04-01T23:56:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*And why should I take your word over that of the dictionaries? \*\* Umm… because I’m right, and they’re wrong? (this is the descriptive/prescriptive thing - I’m prescriptive, your dictionaries are descriptive) of course, I may well be the last one using these words properly - does that make me wrong? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/51 "2002-04-02T00:01:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*So, HappyHeathen, you still use words like “shoppe” and “ye”? Heck, I’ll give you ten SPOOFE points if you can give me the proper pronunciation of the latter. > \*\* Since **happyheathen** refrained from doing so, I’ll do it – “ye” (in the context in which I assume you’re imagining it) is properly pronounced “the.” It’s a holdover from Old English – the letter Y in early modern texts was sometimes used as an equivalent of the letter þ (thorn), which represents the [th] sound in Old (and sometimes Middle) English. You’ll also see “yt” for “that” sometimes. (Which is not to say it _always_ meant [th], of course. IIRC, some old printed texts place two vertical lines over the y when it means [th], but I don’t have any on hand to check. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/52 "2002-04-02T00:16:16Z")
Hey! This is MY pit thread, dammit! Can we all just go back to throwing around insults and slandering me, please? [Jan]Marsha! Marsha! Marsha!![/Jan] ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/53 "2002-04-02T00:32:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by happyheathen \* > **(this is the descriptive/prescriptive thing - I’m prescriptive, your dictionaries are descriptive)** Fine, but why should I believe that your prescription is the correct one? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/54 "2002-04-02T00:35:35Z")
Congrats, Katisha, you get ten SPOOFE points. As for HappyHeathen… well… sometimes, the most literate among us are the most illiterate of all. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/55 "2002-04-02T00:36:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Astroboy14 \* > \*\*Hey! This is MY pit thread, dammit! > > Can we all just go back to throwing around insults and slandering me, please? > > [Jan]Marsha! Marsha! Marsha!![/Jan] \*\* You’re an old fart, and Astrogirl dresses you funny. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/56 "2002-04-02T01:01:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\* > > Fine, but why should I believe that your prescription is the correct one? \*\* because I come from a long line of english teachers (OK - 2 generations)? I simply offer my knowledge - choose wisely, grasshopper. Spooje - you need to work on your Zen… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/57 "2002-04-02T01:04:28Z")
Matt, the fact that the second syllable is longer makes me think that more emphasis is being placed on it. Of course, that’s just my opinion. But I’m sure you’ll agree that they do in fact have distinct pronunciations. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/58 "2002-04-02T01:07:31Z")
**Astroboy** , this Pit thread should have been shut down when **DesertGeezer** started gushing about how wonderful you are. The Mods really ought to crack down on that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/59 "2002-04-02T01:13:28Z")
that was, of course, supposed to be ‘SPOOFE’ ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148/60 "2002-04-02T01:19:10Z")
I’m not as popular as **Fenris**. Just thought I’d mention that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-wonder-the-english-language-is-going-to-hell-b-astroboy-b/101148.md?page=4)