# No, you are not a doctor! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423 "2008-10-11T03:27:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/81 "2008-10-12T00:55:02Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Right or wrong, in today’s day and age a lot of people feel that way. You might not care what they think, but if you, as a Ph.D holder, insist on being addressed as “Dr.”, then you run the risk of having lots of people think you’re a pretentious asshole. Which is why I said [QUOTE=me] Anyone who insists on being called “doctor” by casual acquaintances, members of the public, or the barrista at Starbucks is being a jerk, M.D. or Ph.D. or whatever [/QUOTE] I thought I was pretty clear that anyone who insists on being addressed as Dr., Sir, or any other honorific is out of line. Refer to me as **Mr. Drake** or just **Drake** , I don’t care. I just don’t see that it’s common for people to confuse different types of doctors, and I don’t see why there can only be one type when _that has not been the case within living memory_. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/82 "2008-10-12T01:09:44Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > And an MD who _insists_ on being addressed as “Dr.” is just as big of an asshole. _You_ may feel that way (and you may be right), but I think you will find that more people feel that those who hold a Ph.D and insist on being called “Dr.” vs. MDs who do the same are considered more “pretentious assholes”. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Which is why I said I thought I was pretty clear that anyone who insists on being addressed as Dr., Sir, or any other honorific is out of line. > > Refer to me as **Mr. Drake** or just **Drake** , I don’t care. I just don’t see that it’s common for people to confuse different types of doctors, and I don’t see why there can only be one type when _that has not been the case within living memory_. Well, you did say that you prefer “Dr.” over “Mr.” and your moniker here is “Dr. Drake”. Regardless, my point is not that _you_ are a pretentious jerk (frankly, I don’t know you from Adam – or Dr. Adam if you will); my point (as above) is that I think more people will consider those who wish to be addressed as “Dr.” who hold Ph.D’s “pretentious jerks” over those who are MDs. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/83 "2008-10-12T01:15:36Z")
Again, all this talk of “insisting” is so much irrelevant nonsense. We’re talking here about people who are specifically _asked_ what title they use. Frankly, I don’t want anyone who’s known me for more than five minutes addressing me by anything other than my first name. But if someone asks me for my title, I’ll be buggered if I’m going to take any shit for giving them the correct answer. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/84 "2008-10-12T01:19:02Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > Again, all this talk of “insisting” is so much irrelevant nonsense. We’re talking here about people who are specifically _asked_ what title they use. > > Frankly, I don’t want anyone who’s known me for more than five minutes addressing me by anything other than my first name. But if someone asks me for my title, I’ll be buggered if I’m going to take any shit for giving them the correct answer. Fair point. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/85 "2008-10-12T01:25:34Z")
What? Disarm me by being reasonable? That’s just low. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/86 "2008-10-12T01:31:50Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > Anybody with a doctorate has earned the right to be called doctor. […] I don’t see why there can only be one type when that has not been the case within living memory. > [@leander](#): > > You may feel that way (and you may be right), but I think you will find that more people feel that those who hold a Ph.D and insist on being called “Dr.” vs. MDs who do the same are considered more “pretentious assholes”. It’s not so much about rights as about conventional etiquette. It is [considered correct etiquette](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/25/AR2007122501110.html) in American society for medical doctors to use the honorific “Dr.” socially, but not for Ph.D.'s to do so. There’s no particular logical reason for it, but it’s just the way it is. That doesn’t mean that a Ph.D. doesn’t have the **right** to use “Dr.” socially if s/he chooses, as **Badger** noted. Just be aware that there are still many people who think of it as something that is “not done”. Personally, I never use “Dr.” outside of academic/professional contexts myself, partly because I am a fanatical inverted snob about the inherent democratic value and American-ness of universal honorifics such as “Mr.” and “Ms.” By golly, if being called “Mr.” was good enough for Thomas freaking Jefferson, it (or its feminine equivalent) is good enough for any American today, no matter how many diplomas they’ve got. And just FTR, I walked that walk, too, when I spent a couple of years at a Dutch university where they messed up the nameplate for my office door and put the Dutch equivalent of “Ms.” (that’s “Mevr.” for “Mevrouw”, in case you care) instead of “Dr.” Academics in the Netherlands, as in most of Europe, are very particular about careful acknowledgement of academic titles, and can get very miffed if you refer to them as “Doktor” when they’re really “Professor-Doktor” or whatever, so my colleagues thought it was a pretty unfortunate mistake. But I maintained that it was unbecoming for an American to object to being addressed by a perfectly respectful universal honorific, and refused to complain about it. So there! (So, naturally, every confused or lost person who walked by my office—especially since it was right opposite the elevator—saw my non-“Dr.” nameplate (and my two X chromosomes) and thought I must be the secretary, so they came in to ask me how to find room 705 or where to get their delivery forms signed or whatever. This was actually not a bad way to meet people, and gave me lots of opportunities to practice my Dutch! :)) ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/87 "2008-10-12T01:42:56Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > Except that the airlines don’t give a shit. As pointed out by others, including at least one medical doctor, in an on-board medical emergency they don’t rely on the manifest to locate suitable assistance. I’ll back you up; I’ve been on a couple flights where there was a medical emergency, and in one I witnessed it happening. No one grabbed the manifest and started seeing who was listed as “Dr”, they grabbed the intercom and said “are there any medical trained personnel on-board?” ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/88 "2008-10-12T01:48:03Z")
**Kimstu** , that first quote is from **Dr. Drake** , not me. Anyway, I completely agree about the essential triviality of honorifics; I still haven’t decided whether I’ll bother to style myself “Dr” once I finish my PhD. I suspect I’ll jokingly insist on it for about two weeks, then the fun will wear off and I’ll go back to not caring (I can’t even remember the last time someone addressed me as “Mr”, although I nearly shat myself the first time a student called me “sir”). The only thing that’s annoyed me in this thread is that people are being berated for giving an honest answer to a straight question. Nothing gets my goat more than blame being assigned to the undeserving. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/89 "2008-10-12T02:22:14Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > Kimstu, that first quote is from Dr. Drake, not me. Whoops, so it is; sorry! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/90 "2008-10-12T04:34:47Z")
I worked hard to get my M.S. I expect to be called Master instead of Mister. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/91 "2008-10-12T07:17:54Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I’ll back you up; I’ve been on a couple flights where there was a medical emergency, and in one I witnessed it happening. No one grabbed the manifest and started seeing who was listed as “Dr”, they grabbed the intercom and said “are there any medical trained personnel on-board?” I’ll back you backing **Q.E.D.** up. I’ve been on a flight with a medical emergency. The flight attendants put out a P.A. asking for anyone with medical training. They didn’t appear to use the passenger manifest. I suspect the OP has no idea of what he’s talking about. Regards, Capt. 1920s Style “Death Ray” ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/92 "2008-10-12T07:24:49Z")
Two pieces of anecdotal evidence. Then it must be true! ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/93 "2008-10-12T14:18:28Z")
This thread is hilarious. I would submit that looking at the manifest would be the worst way to find a person who could help you in an emergency. First, there are a large number of MD’s who wouldn’t be much help in an emergency. Somebody who has only practiced dermatology, pathology, or any other of a huge list of specialties for over 10 years would probably be as much help as an avid ER watcher. A EMT or nurse would be of greater assistance. Not to mention the MD might be 90 years old, the one who is sick,a person who would rather watch someone else die than get out of their seat, etc. etc. Having an MD after one’s name doesn’t mean much. I can imagine the MD being approached being a pathologist. The person tells the stewardess that he can’t assist in the emergency, but if that person passes he could post him and explain how he died. In the college setting I work at, Doctors are usually veterinarians (I work at a veterinary school). In the real world, that makes me, “Doc” as in “Can you scope my horse, Doc.” PhD are generally called Professors. As in," Professor Engineer leads a chess club." MD’s are usually referred to as R. D. s or Real Doctors. As in “The owner of the chow is an RD, and he’s already “diagnosed” his pet’s kennel cough as peri-tracheitis.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/94 "2008-10-12T14:19:27Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I worked hard to get my M.S. I expect to be called Master instead of Mister. How dare you. Everyone knows that orchestra conductors are called Master (Maestro). Why are you putting on airs and manipulating people into thinking you’re a conductor (or a slave owner)? ---
**Author:** ![Lars\_Aruns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Lars\_Aruns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lars_Aruns)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/95 "2008-10-12T14:45:37Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > How dare you. Everyone knows that orchestra conductors are called Master (Maestro). Why are you putting on airs and manipulating people into thinking you’re a conductor (or a slave owner)? Yeah, suppose there’s a music emergency? How are you going to like it when they approach you and hand you a baton saying “The show _must_ go on”? 🙂 Leaving jokes aside, titles are indeed used in different fashions in different countries, and nitpicking on titles because of the US fashion seems a bit, well, I dunno. In the UK the honorific of “Doctor” for PhD holders _and_ medics is accepted, but don’t call a lowly lecturer “Professor” - that’s a separate title. In Italy anyone with a degree gets called Doctor, including poor simple me with a BSc. Imagine my surprise when I answered the phone and they asked for “Dr Aruns”. No, it was not a medical emergency 🙂 On the other side, anyone teaching in an academic environment gets called Professor. I remember calling that way even research students coming over for practical lessons - some of them were quite annoying about being called that. As for me, I’d sentence everyone to perpetual Misterhood, or Misshood if female. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/96 "2008-10-12T14:52:19Z")
Hell go ahead and list anyone by anything they ask for. You’ll still be sucking up to me at 30,000 feet because I alone am the passenger who speaks jive. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/97 "2008-10-12T15:56:35Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > PhD are generally called Professors. As in," Professor Engineer leads a chess club." Not unless they hold a tenure track position at a university. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/98 "2008-10-12T16:19:25Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Two pieces of anecdotal evidence. Then it must be true! Three now. And the medic in question was a nurse sitting right beside me and she responded when an overhead page asking for such a person came over the mic. Not because they looked at the manfest and saw RN after her name. It was kind of nice, as I got to have extra space while she was back doing whatever she was doing to the man who appeared to be OK (if kind of scared) when he was wheeled off the plane on a stretcher. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/99 "2008-10-12T17:28:17Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Two pieces of anecdotal evidence. Then it must be true! Well, even if all we had were two pieces of anecdotal evidence (it’s not, but whatever), that would still be more evidence than the OP has offered for his assertion that the flight crew use the passenger manifests to determine where the medical doctors are, and that the airlines prefer that only medical doctors use the “Dr” honorific on their ticket purchases. No-one has yet offered a single piece of evidence that this is the case. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423/100 "2008-10-12T17:52:54Z")
> [@mcott](#): > > There is no provision for MD. You have a choice between MR, MS, MRS, **ADM, CAPTN, or others among the military ranks.** There is no MD. Um, _what?!?!?_ On no flight that I have been on, and they have been many, has my boarding pass or any documentation that I have had indicated my military rank. IIRC, they did away with this after a few hijackings in the '80s, where servicemembers were specifically targeted for execution. Besides, it’s an unimportant piece of data on a commercial flight. I mean, granted, you’ve self-identified yourself as a travel agent, and I’ll take your word for it, but I have to ask for a cite. The last thing I want to do is A) fly in uniform or B) be singled out as a member of the Air Force–you wouldn’t believe how many friggin’ people come out of the woodwork: “Did you know my Uncle Bill? He fixed airplanes in the '80s!” “Oh, my brother was in the Marines in the Korean War. Did you know that?!?” :rolleyes: I friggin’ hate the spotlight. Tripler Again. . . . _cite_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-are-not-a-doctor/467423.md?page=6)