# No, you asshole anti-abortion protestor. I do not want her to have an abortion@ **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624 "2010-04-28T14:31:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/281 "2010-05-07T13:30:47Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > **Embryos have human potential. But they aren’t human beings according to what I think are reasonable criteria.** Teratomas have only the potential to grow into bigger teratomas\*, and in unusual cases to become malignant. That was exactly my point. And the teratoma example was only in response to the “comparing zygotes to cancer cells is crazy”. I don’t want to hijack the discussion with teratomas but, biologically, they have more in common with an early embryo. I think pro-life people put huge moral importance on the potential to become human. But from a biological perspective, it’s probably gonna only end up being a few initiating transcription factors that separates a cancer cell or a teratoma from a totipotent stem cell like a zygote or an early embryo. So, what I don’t understand, is why some anti-choice people think “human potential” has moral significance? (besides the religious arguments) More Hijack: So, Jackmannii, your Terrortoma developed some kind of primitive central nervous system? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/282 "2010-05-07T14:20:29Z")
Look at cloning. Almost every cell in the human body has “human potential”. The DNA inside a cell can be turned into a new human being at least in theroy, all it needs is the proper growth medium like an egg and a womb and a little kick start like Dolly. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/283 "2010-05-07T15:06:16Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > So, what I don’t understand, is why some anti-choice people think “human potential” has moral significance? (besides the religious arguments) There \*is \*no argument beyond the religious or metaphysical. The significance of the potential to develop into a human being is entirely predicated on there being something special and unique about humanity as a form of life, i.e., ensoulment. If we have a soul, clearly it has to show up at some point, and the development process doesn’t have any clear delineators, so they go with conception. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/284 "2010-05-09T01:41:03Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > No, you being a vapid twat is what makes you a vapid twat. There are plenty of people on this board I’ve disagreed with to whom I’ve never applied that perjorative. Wow, good for you; that’s a sign of maturity you know. So? > [@](#): > > As far as my answer to your question goes, apparently you’re \*so \*fucking thick that I need to spell it out for you. Going through an experience you don’t care to repeat more than once because you made the same mistake again and again (which is how I was \*originally \*reading **FGIE** ’s story) is _stupid_. Get it now, tardface? Speaking of so fucking thick - none of this has anything to do with my original question. Which was - why does it make _you_ so angry that someone else repeated a mistake. However, it seems the answer is that _everything_ that you don’t like or agree with makes you angry. To the point of over compensating… > [@](#): > > No, I was reading FGIE’s story, wherein it was clear that in at least one of the cases, the woman wasn’t sure that she wanted an abortion. And I never said that an abortion was mentally traumatic for \*all \*women. It is, however, a medical procedure that carries a certain amount of \*physical \*risk for \*any \*woman who undergoes it. So is pregnancy, yet many women repeat that mistake over and over - does that also make you irrationally upset? > [@](#): > > No, it’s _science_, you ignorant sow. Since you couldn’t be bothered to quote what you are responding to, and I don’t feel like scrolling thru a whole pile of crap to find it - I have no idea what you are talking about. If you are trying to state that a fetus is “alive” from conception on, and you have “science” to prove it, I’d sure be interested to see if you can come up with a link to support that idea. > [@](#): > > the question is not whether or not a fetus is \*alive \*('cause it is), the question is whether or not it’s a _person_. Well, that is _a_ question - when did it become _the_ question? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/285 "2010-05-09T02:52:33Z")
I’m honored to be so aptly defended… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/286 "2010-05-09T10:34:31Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > IME, a lot of “pro-choice” people are about as pro-choice as “pro-life” people are pro-life. I.e., they don’t care about working to ensure that a woman genuinely has a choice to make (access to health care, maternity leave, ability to not have her career and/or education unduly fucked with, viability of our adoption system), just keeping abortion legal. This is untrue. Planned Parenthood, to use one example, offers all of those things (prenatal care, contraception education, adoption assistance). Really, you are projecting. The anti-choice side is the one that doesn’t care about anything as long as the baby is brought to term. The pro-choice side aren’t the ones fighting against contraceptives (like most anti-choice people are)… I am reminded of when this subject came up on another message board. A woman there told the story about how her parents forced her to get an abortion and how this traumatized her and was a huge reason why she was anti-choice. I explained to her that what she went through was abhorrant, however the difference between her and myself is that I found it equally abhorrant if a girl is forced to give birth to a baby she doesn’t want. And I still do feel that way. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/287 "2010-05-09T12:41:40Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I am reminded of when this subject came up on another message board. A woman there told the story about how her parents forced her to get an abortion and how this traumatized her and was a huge reason why she was anti-choice. > > I explained to her that what she went through was abhorrant, however the difference between her and myself is that I found it equally abhorrant if a girl is forced to give birth to a baby she doesn’t want. And I still do feel that way. The key word that both of those situations share is: “forced”. It appears the woman missed the point. So traumatized by having your choice taken away from you that you support taking away that choice from every other women? _boggle_ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/288 "2010-05-09T12:55:29Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > That was exactly my point. And the teratoma example was only in response to the “comparing zygotes to cancer cells is crazy”. I don’t want to hijack the discussion with teratomas but, biologically, they have more in common with an early embryo. > > I think pro-life people put huge moral importance on the potential to become human. But from a biological perspective, it’s probably gonna only end up being a few initiating transcription factors that separates a cancer cell or a teratoma from a totipotent stem cell like a zygote or an early embryo. > > So, what I don’t understand, is why some anti-choice people think “human potential” has moral significance? (besides the religious arguments) We instinctively value humanity. Why the hell wouldn’t we value something that had the ability to become human? And if you try to tell me you do not value humanity, I offer this: If I offered you human meat, would you eat it? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/289 "2010-05-09T13:34:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And if you try to tell me you do not value humanity, I offer this: If I offered you human meat, would you eat it? This is a silly question. If your plane crashed in the Andes and you were starving to death, you’d eat human meat. It’s a social construct that keeps living people safe from being served on someone else’s dinner table and (probably prevents some type of mad human disease). In a life and death situation, that social construct is deconstructed because survival is of greater value than it. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/290 "2010-05-09T15:18:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > We instinctively value humanity. Why the hell wouldn’t we value something that had the ability to become human? > > And if you try to tell me you do not value humanity, I offer this: If I offered you human meat, would you eat it? MU! (sorry :o) I like to think I value humanity, though. Not sure why “potential to become human” is required. I think **Brown Eyed Girl** pretty much summed it up for me. Most human cultures have death aversions probably due to disease and due to most of them not wanting to believe a loved one is gone when they die. But when push comes to shove, they’ll eat people. Also, there’s plenty of evidence of cannibalism in prehistoric people. But abortion and infanticide happened a lot, even in ancient cultures. In fact, many religions, until very recently, considered abortion up to the point of “quickening” to be OK. “Quickening” is when the soul entered. Humans don’t _instinctively_ value humanity. There is some instinctual altruism but, generally, humans don’t naturally value humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/291 "2010-05-09T18:46:50Z")
I may or may not instinctively value humanity (I think the point is definitely up for debate), but I don’t particularly value a blob of cells. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/292 "2010-05-09T22:24:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > We instinctively value humanity. Why the hell wouldn’t we value something that had the ability to become human? > > And if you try to tell me you do not value humanity, I offer this: If I offered you human meat, would you eat it? I’m going to have to wait 'til we solve the whole ‘are fetuses human?’ debate to answer that question. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/293 "2010-05-09T22:44:17Z")
Why does such a debate matter? Fine, a fetus is a human, a person, sentient, looking forward to taking long walks in the rain and voting Democrat… whatever… The whole labeling argument is a waste of time and I cheerfully stipulate to any anthropomorphic claims anyone wants to make about the fetus. So we have two people, and their interests are in conflict. After weighing the impacts, I side with the mother as being the better option. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/294 "2010-05-09T22:54:33Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > This is a silly question. If your plane crashed in the Andes and you were starving to death, you’d eat human meat. It’s a social construct that keeps living people safe from being served on someone else’s dinner table and (probably prevents some type of mad human disease). In a life and death situation, that social construct is deconstructed because survival is of greater value than it. Off-topic: there actually IS a mad human disease, [kuru](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_(disease)) which is spread by cannibalism. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/295 "2010-05-09T23:45:18Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Off-topic: there actually IS a mad human disease, [kuru](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_(disease)) which is spread by cannibalism. :eek: Holy crap! I was just guessing! :eek: That is disturbing! Especially this part: The dysmorphism evident in the infection rates—kuru was 8-9 times more prevalent in women and children than in men at its peak—is because while the men of the village took the _choice cuts_, the women and children would eat the rest of the body including the brain, where the prion particles were particularly concentrated. Spoilered for the weak of stomach. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/296 "2010-05-10T03:46:37Z")
Some religions believe ensoulment happens at conceptions, other at quickening, others when a baby takes its first breath after birth. Some religions mandate abortion to save the life of the mother, others feel that abortion, even to save the mother’s life, is still wrong. Other than respecting the religious and cultural beliefs of the pregnant woman religion has no place in the abortion debate…mostly because you then have to decide whose religion you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/297 "2010-05-10T10:43:17Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Some religions believe ensoulment happens at conceptions, other at quickening, **others when a baby takes its first breath after birth**. Cite?, and for that matter which still believe in the quickening? (I’m not doubting, just curious) > [@irishgirl](#): > > Some religions mandate abortion to save the life of the mother, others feel that abortion, even to save the mother’s life, is still wrong. Cite? Again just curious. I thought all major religions were all of the opinion that abortion was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/298 "2010-05-10T10:57:42Z")
[Judaism has historically taught that abortion is mandatory if the mother’s life is at risk.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_abortion) Some Jews adhere to this, others don’t, and it’s a point of considerable debate. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/299 "2010-05-10T17:09:20Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Speaking of so fucking thick - none of this has anything to do with my original question. Which was - why does it make _you_ so angry that someone else repeated a mistake. Because. I fucking hate. Stupidity. You. Thick. Fucking. Cow. > [@](#): > > So is pregnancy, yet many women repeat that mistake over and over - does that also make you irrationally upset? I’m also pissed off at women who get pregnant over and over when they don’t want to and/or can’t properly care for the kids. It’s just another form of stupidity–or perhaps ignorance about the availability of birth control. > [@](#): > > If you are trying to state that a fetus is “alive” from conception on, and you have “science” to prove it, I’d sure be interested to see if you can come up with a link to support that idea. I ask you again: do you think that a fetus can die? (Because they can.) Something can’t die if it’s not alive in the first place. What do you think a stillbirth is, you fucking retard? > [@](#): > > Well, that is _a_ question - when did it become _the_ question? When we were discussing the ethics of abortion. Duh? The life of a fetus is self-evident, as is the life of a mosquito. The only significant question is whether or not a fetus is a _person_. You can have killing without murder, but you can’t have murder without a person. > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > This is untrue. Planned Parenthood, to use one example, offers all of those things (prenatal care, contraception education, adoption assistance). \*\*JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE THAT NONE OF YOU READ THIS FUCKING THREAD. \*\*Are you really that fucking thick? **I not only [EXPLICITLY STATED that Planned Parenthood was a great example of an organization that I would characterize as pro-choice](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12395046&postcount=53)** (barely fifty posts into the thread, even), I \*\*quoted \*\*that post at least once or twice in response to \*other \*illiterate fucking retards like you who couldn’t be bothered to read past the first post that said something that they thought was calling them a bad name. Seriously, people. You’re not doing the pro-choice movement any favors by being this fucking **stupid**. Do us all a favor and shut your fucking mouths. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/300 "2010-05-10T17:40:06Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > The only significant question is whether or not a fetus is a _person_. Why? A trespasser is without doubt a person, but the homeowner nevertheless has the right to remove him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624.md?page=16)