# No, you asshole anti-abortion protestor. I do not want her to have an abortion@ **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624 "2010-04-28T14:31:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/61 "2010-04-28T21:15:29Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > \ So you might as well say “Well what if the protesters were DRAGONS! Huh?! They’d be dangerous then!” > \ That would be kind of awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/62 "2010-04-28T21:24:21Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That would be kind of awesome. Seriously. I might even listen to what they had to say, if it were accompanied by gouts of smoke and flame. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/63 "2010-04-28T21:25:19Z")
**Freudian Slit** , my issue is that a lot of “pro-choice” people just get so hung up on the abortion part that they neglect the rest. What does it matter if a woman has a \*legal \*right to carry a pregnancy to term if her only \*valid \*option is an abortion? I mean, if I’m some 18-year-old who only ever had abstinence-only sex “ed,” never learned where to get birth control or how to use a condom, and is working a minimum-wage job with no health insurance, that’s not looking like I have a whole lot of “choice” unless I’m excited about the prospect of slipping into an even more grinding level of poverty. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > “Working for access to health care” is fine, but making it necessary to be against _corporal_ punishment? I mean, really. I’m not for spanking kiddies, but I just don’t see that as a pro-life issue. 😃 I think you may have meant _capital_ punishment (not that that issue fits neatly into a pro- or anti-life package either). :smack: Yes, you’re right, I meant capital punishment. Psh, they both start with c’s, it’s \*totally \*the same thing. :smack::smack::smack: > [@Enginerd](#): > > That’s quite a distinction from the “pro-abortion” term you used earlier. Read the thread. You’ll see I suggested it as an alternative that might be more palatable a few posts back. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That would be kind of awesome. Agreed. All protesters should now be required to be dragons. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/64 "2010-04-28T21:31:34Z")
Or at least **Chessic Sense** , anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/65 "2010-04-28T21:44:33Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Working to keep abortion legal makes you pro-abortion. Working to make sure that a woman who wants to have an abortion can get one, a woman who wants to carry the pregnancy to term but give the baby up for adoption can do so, a woman who doesn’t want to get pregnant has access to birth control and understands how to use it, and a woman who wants to carry the pregnancy to term and keep the baby can also do so makes you pro-choice. > > Working to make abortion illegal makes you anti-abortion. Working to make sure that woman actually have a valid option to carry the pregnancy to term and give the baby up for adoption and keep it, as well as defending the lives of others by working for access to health care and against corporal punishment, makes you pro-life. > > See the distinction? Not really. I can’t see why a pro-choice person, as you define it above, can’t also be a pro-abortion person (again, as you define it above). What’s the difference between “working to keep abortion legal” and “[w]orking to make sure that a woman who wants to have an abortion can get one”? Surely if abortion is illegal, she _can’t_ get one, at least not legally, even if she wants one. I suppose, maybe, if the practice was banned a “pro-abortion” person would be lobbying legislators and the “pro-choice” person would be setting up underground clinics, or something. Further, you’re overestimating the callousness of your “pro-choice” people and overestimating the generosity of your “pro-life” people. Many of the people who claim the former label support universal health care, which would cover the issues you say their indifferent too, and many who embrace the latter label have no problem with capital punishment (which I assume you meant). You’re free to apply labels as you wish, but I don’t expect you’ll get much traction with the people you’re attempting to classify. I’m personally okay with using “pro-choice” and “pro-life” as the self-identified use them, as relates to their attitudes on abortion specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/66 "2010-04-28T21:53:42Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Agreed. All protesters should now be required to be dragons. See, THIS is the problem I have with the pro-choice side. Oh, they _say_ they want to let you choose, but really they won’t be happy until you’re REQUIRED to be a dragon. I mean, what if I’ve weighed all the evidence and I want to be a Gorgon instead? Huh? Pro-choice, my ass! ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/67 "2010-04-28T21:54:44Z")
(ETA: This was at **Bryan Ekers**. Fuck your Gorgon post-snipe, **Chessic**.) I think you’re seeing bias where there isn’t any. Does it help you to know that I think there are probably more genuinely pro-choice people in the U.S. than there are genuinely pro-life? And that I think making abortion illegal would be a fucking nightmare? I think you’re also still confused about the terminology, since you “can’t see why a pro-choice person, as you define it above, can’t also be a pro-abortion person.” Here, I’ll help: all pro-choice people are pro-abortion-legality, but not all pro-abortion-legality people are pro-choice. Does that get it through your skull, or am I going to have to repeat myself _again_? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/68 "2010-04-28T21:57:30Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > See, THIS is the problem I have with the pro-choice side. Oh, they _say_ they want to let you choose, but really they won’t be happy until you’re REQUIRED to be a dragon. > > I mean, what if I’ve weighed all the evidence and I want to be a Gorgon instead? Huh? Pro-choice, my ass! You’d be less entertaining as a gorgon, plus gorgons can speak. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/69 "2010-04-28T22:05:46Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > What are you on about? Are you talking about [Mookie](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=543516&highlight=compassion)? I feel a hijack coming, so I’m just going to let that one go. Feel free to Pit me for it. The fact that you don’t get her point is part of her point. You admit you have no social conscience. That you have a chronic inability to understand how words can possibly hurt someone. This is very relevant to the discussion at hand. I’m not going to harp on you for being a psychopath, as you’re not out there killing people because you can’t process remorse. But you’ve got to realize that most people are not psychopaths. And, thus, most people will be hurt by hurtful, even if you can’t comprehend why they’d be hurtful. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/70 "2010-04-28T22:15:35Z")
And before someone hits me for leaving out a word: the first “hurtful” above should be “hurtful comments.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/71 "2010-04-28T22:24:08Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I think you’re also still confused about the terminology No, I’m pointing out the flaws in your terminology, which as far as I know has nowhere near the widespread acceptance necessary to approach a level where it might count as the terminology. You’ve describing distinctions that may not exist, or even if they do aren’t useful, and I don’t see why any person currently self-describing as “pro-choice” or “pro-life” would embrace them. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/72 "2010-04-28T22:55:50Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > For fuck’s sake, read what I wrote instead of getting your panties in a wad. Would you prefer it if we phrased it as pro-abortion-legality and anti-abortion-legality? Because I’d be fine with that; it’s just clunky. I read what you wrote, I just think it’s dumb. Most non-stupid people know that “pro-choice” is shorthand for “pro-abortion-legality”. Similarly, anyone who isn’t a complete retard would understand why people in favor of legalized abortion don’t want to be called “pro-abortion”, any more than NRA members in favor of legalized handguns want to be called “pro-murder”. (Hint: the key lies with the fact that no one actually likes stuff like abortion and murder.) This is why you’re not getting a lot of support in your cause to “improve” the pro-choice label. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/73 "2010-04-28T23:17:06Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Working to keep abortion legal makes you pro-abortion. Working to make sure that a woman who wants to have an abortion can get one, a woman who wants to carry the pregnancy to term but give the baby up for adoption can do so, a woman who doesn’t want to get pregnant has access to birth control and understands how to use it, and a woman who wants to carry the pregnancy to term and keep the baby can also do so makes you pro-choice. What the hell do you think Planned Parenthood does? They provide help for all of these things you moron. Which party pushed for equalized pay for women? Or expanding health care and contraception access for everyone? Or providing government funding for adoption services? Or expanding the pool of adoptive parents? Or family leave? It was the Democrats, and in particular, the progressive and liberal wings of the party. Pick up a fucking newspaper once in awhile you stupid douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/74 "2010-04-28T23:55:14Z")
I think it’s actually, Pro-Government controlled choice. Of course, that also assumes Pro-My religion controlled Government. Most of these are reflections of Pro-everyone has to be like me. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/75 "2010-04-29T00:01:29Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > I think it’s actually, Pro-Government controlled choice. Of course, that also assumes Pro-My religion controlled Government. Most of these are reflections of Pro-everyone has to be like me. What are you, some kinda splitter? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/76 "2010-04-29T00:06:07Z")
I had an ex-fiancee in the early 1990’s that I got pregnant. I think she wanted to keep it deep down, but she agreed with me that since we were both in college and living on Ramen noodles in an efficiency apartment that it wasn’t in our means to have the baby, nor was it conducive to our pursuit of our mutual degrees. Anyway, we decided to abort, and we were harangued by not only protestors outside the Planned Parenthood facility, but a priest’s antennae were pricked up by Kim, and he immediately verbally started haranguing her, saying stuff like “Don’t let him do this to you, honey” and other shit. To be honest, we were both in our early 20’s and scared green by the whole thing and I think he picked up on that, especially with her. He wouldn’t stop telling her that she shouldn’t go through with what she was doing and that I was somehow the enforcer in the decision. Funny thing is…I kinda was. How did he know? I mean, I wasn’t _forcing_ her, but my opinion seemed to hold sway over her, even as I assured her it was for the best. Well, I was scared by the crowd and this well-meaning priest and Kim was bursting into tears and looking at me with those puppy-dog eyes that pleaded “Please let’s not do this” and I promptly got into Mr Priests face and threatened him with physical assault if he didn’t shut the fuck up. Not my most shining moment to be sure, but we got the abortion, and Kim and I drifted apart slowly after that. We even ended up getting married to try to resolve our differences and like the childlike decision it was, it didn’t work out. I’ve been privy to two more subsequent abortions, another with a girl Susan that I was crazy about and she didn’t feel the same way (apparently) and one more with my current wife, where we decided that we already had three kids and didn’t want another. I suppose the whole point of all this is that its an extremely difficult decision for everyone involved, and that there’s almost always quite a bit of regret and soul-searching. It’s so easy to say “pro-choice” and “pro-life” until YOU have to deal with it. I guess the other lesson is that I need to be more proactive with birth control, since I am apparently so fertile. I have nightmares about my sons that they die in horrible ways that in some way is a cosmic karmic “payback” for what I’ve done, and frankly, its horrible. This is probably TMI, but I thought I’d toss it into the ring. I do regret my decision, even as I support a woman’s right to choose. I suppose that makes me some kind of a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/77 "2010-04-29T00:20:07Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Would you prefer it if we phrased it as pro-abortion-legality and anti-abortion-legality? Because I’d be fine with that; it’s just clunky. You could say “abortion-rights” and “anti-abortion (rights)” with accuracy, I think. But I did take your point earlier. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Planned Parenthood is a great example of an organization that I’d say is pro-choice, because they genuinely work to make sure that a woman has the resources she needs to actually be making a decision, versus being forced one way or the other due to circumstances beyond her control. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/78 "2010-04-29T00:48:35Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > This is probably TMI, but I thought I’d toss it into the ring. I do regret my decision, even as I support a woman’s right to choose. I suppose that makes me some kind of a hypocrite. You’re conflicted over actions you’ve taken in your past. So is everyone. How does that make you a hypocrite? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/79 "2010-04-29T00:59:24Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > This is probably TMI, but I thought I’d toss it into the ring. I do regret my decision, even as I support a woman’s right to choose. I suppose that makes me some kind of a hypocrite. That makes you a human being. Abortion is not something that any normal sane person is going to take lightly. If you’re ambivalent or conflicted on your personal feelings that’s understandable, preferable. And if you wonder about the path not taken, that’s reasonable also. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624/80 "2010-04-29T01:05:12Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > That makes you a human being. Abortion is not something that any normal sane person is going to take lightly. If you’re ambivalent or conflicted on your personal feelings that’s understandable, preferable. And if you wonder about the path not taken, that’s reasonable also. This is true, as well as it being true that _foie gras_ is not being hypocritical because of his ambivalent feelings about a life-changing decision. The truly wrong part is when anti-abortion activists try to use this very human emotional and psychological reaction to manipulate, trap, or force people – at a time they are very vulnerable (and that includes mature males who are involved too) – into making the decision that the antis want them to make, including taking on responsibility for children they’re not ready for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-asshole-anti-abortion-protestor-i-do-not-want-her-to-have-an-abortion/537624.md?page=5)