# No, you ignoramuses, this \*isn't\* racist (or, "Here we go again..") **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2010, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886 "2010-01-06T11:09:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/181 "2010-01-07T00:21:22Z")
I reckon this is the funniest thread I’ve read in GD for many a long year. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/182 "2010-01-07T00:31:57Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:180, topic:523886”] a scared white guy surrounded by unruly African Americans and taming them with their favourite food, fried chicken [/QUOTE] Do I really need to say it? ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/183 "2010-01-07T00:35:21Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Do I really need to say it? Say what? Did you miss the point being made? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/184 "2010-01-07T00:40:29Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/185 "2010-01-07T00:45:33Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No. So what _are_ you saying **FinnAgain**? You’re being a bit too cryptic for me. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/186 "2010-01-07T00:46:06Z")
Your point is lost on me, then. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/187 "2010-01-07T00:49:33Z")
No, I don’t get what you’re saying either. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/188 "2010-01-07T00:53:44Z")
At a guess: The white guy isn’t surrounded by African Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/189 "2010-01-07T00:57:49Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Do you think that there is _any_ realistic level of advantage to be gained that would make the risk of a backlash worthwhile? Or do you just not think there’s any risk? Yes and Yes. I have already said I think there is a realistic level of advantage, and as far as the risk, I enter this thread in evidence. Apparently, it is very difficult to get people to admit that racial tension is still a significant issue, even in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/190 "2010-01-07T00:57:59Z")
> [@Kal](#): > > At a guess: The white guy isn’t surrounded by African Americans. If so, then the point really was missed. HINT: everything **FinnAgain** quoted was a mischaracterisation. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/191 "2010-01-07T01:04:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Apparently, it is very difficult to get people to admit that racial tension is still a significant issue, even in Australia. Racial tension is an issue here, but it has zero to do with West Indies supporters. The biggest issue is probably between Anglo-Australians and second generation Lebanese immigrants, at a guess. We really don’t have the black/white dichotomy that the US has, and so being surrounded by blacks doesn’t have the same connotations. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/192 "2010-01-07T01:16:43Z")
Incidentally, **Fear Itself** , doesn’t your little set-up whereby we’re all simply in denial strike you as a little bit intellectually dishonest? “Have Australian men stopped beating their wives?” should be your next question. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/193 "2010-01-07T01:36:03Z")
I suppose, if pressed, I might have to point out that the stereotypes aren’t about African Americans, but blacks, and that people from the Caribbean would generally qualify. (What, you think that American racists stop to see what country a black person holds citizenship in before holding negative attitudes? "What’s that, that negro isn’t African American, he’s a Brit? Well why didn’t you say so, maybe he’d like to meet my daughter!) Perhaps I might point out that [racism against blacks and Indians is still significant even in educated Australian populations.](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Students-from-Africa-India-suffer-racism-in-Australia-Study-/articleshow/5245767.cms) Perhaps that [large portions of Australia are racist](http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/one-in-10-are-racist-study-says/2008/09/28/1222540254253.html) and while many may be ‘primarily racist’ against group X, that racist thinking in and of itself relies on the fallacies of composition and division and, as such, racists tend to not confine their racism to only one group. I might point out that Australians are hardly ignorant of American culture or racial attitudes, and that a commercial which offers even a very small bit of catering to some of the nastier emotions can be a marketing success simply for its emotional impact/brand name recognition. Just like, if we had a commercial of filth-caked Aborigines dancing around a fire and someone distracting them with pretty baubles while someone else spirited away their children in a bus, followed by a scene of those children grown up into adults wearing Polo shirts and the slogan “Polo: a little bit more… civilized.” Well… it’d be a little bit odd to claim that the Aussies were imposing their cultural chauvinism on us because obviously we have no history of brutalizing Aborigines. Or I could just point out that I’m reminded a bit of the old SNL [Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer](http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o79/Hannah_Pittman/?action=view¤t=CavemanLawyer.flv) skit: Australian Edition. “What are these strange racist ideas you speak of? These are strange and unfamiliar to me, I do not understand. But your fried chicken is delicious!” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/194 "2010-01-07T01:49:40Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I suppose, if pressed, I might have to point out that the stereotypes aren’t about African Americans, but blacks, and that people from the Caribbean would generally qualify. (What, you think that American racists stop to see what country a black person holds citizenship in before holding negative attitudes? "What’s that, that negro isn’t African American, he’s a Brit? Well why didn’t you say so, maybe he’d like to meet my daughter!) What stereotypes? Are Zimbabweans known for their love of fried chicken? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/195 "2010-01-07T02:02:43Z")
Are people from Zimbabwe considered black? Is the stereotype about American culture’s effect on people, or inherent racial attributes? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/196 "2010-01-07T02:05:19Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I suppose, if pressed, I might have to point out that the stereotypes aren’t about African Americans, but blacks, and that people from the Caribbean would generally qualify. (What, you think that American racists stop to see what country a black person holds citizenship in before holding negative attitudes? "What’s that, that negro isn’t African American, he’s a Brit? Well why didn’t you say so, maybe he’d like to meet my daughter!) > > Perhaps I might point out that [racism against blacks and Indians is still significant even in educated Australian populations.](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Students-from-Africa-India-suffer-racism-in-Australia-Study-/articleshow/5245767.cms) Perhaps that [large portions of Australia are racist](http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/one-in-10-are-racist-study-says/2008/09/28/1222540254253.html) and while many may be ‘primarily racist’ against group X, that racist thinking in and of itself relies on the fallacies of composition and division and, as such, racists tend to not confine their racism to only one group. I might point out that Australians are hardly ignorant of American culture or racial attitudes, and that a commercial which offers even a very small bit of catering to some of the nastier emotions can be a marketing success simply for its emotional impact/brand name recognition. > > Just like, if we had a commercial of filth-caked Aborigines dancing around a fire and someone distracting them with pretty baubles while someone else spirited away their children in a bus, followed by a scene of those children grown up into adults wearing Polo shirts and the slogan “Polo: a little bit more… civilized.” > Well… it’d be a little bit odd to claim that the Aussies were imposing their cultural chauvinism on us because obviously we have no history of brutalizing Aborigines. > > Or I could just point out that I’m reminded a bit of the old SNL [Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer](http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o79/Hannah_Pittman/?action=view¤t=CavemanLawyer.flv) skit: Australian Edition. “What are these strange racist ideas you speak of? These are strange and unfamiliar to me, I do not understand. But your fried chicken is delicious!” Just quoting this as my contender for the dumbest, most oblivious, most missing the point, most “I must swiftly google stuff to make it look like I know stuff to dig me out a hole” and most ham-fisted attempted deflection post of 2010. Congratulations, it’s only January. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/197 "2010-01-07T02:09:52Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Just like, if we had a commercial of filth-caked Aborigines dancing around a fire and someone distracting them with pretty baubles while someone else spirited away their children in a bus, followed by a scene of those children grown up into adults wearing Polo shirts and the slogan “Polo: a little bit more… civilized.” > Well… it’d be a little bit odd to claim that the Aussies were imposing their cultural chauvinism on us because obviously we have no history of brutalizing Aborigines. This would be a real zinger if the analogy was even halfway decent, but it’s not. Why? Because in your hypothetical, the implied judgement is that Aboriginal culture is inherently uncivilised. There is no implied judgement against the people in the ad; rather, the humour derives from the cultural clash – neither is “better”, but there is awkwardness by being an outsider in a large crowd of people whose values (in this case, which team you support) are totally alien. Reverse the races/cultures/teams and the ad would function in exactly the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/198 "2010-01-07T02:10:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Are people from Zimbabwe considered black? > Is the stereotype about American culture’s effect on people, or inherent racial attributes? I’m no expert, but I would submit that black people from Zimbabwe are probably considered black, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/199 "2010-01-07T02:11:00Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Just quoting this as my contender for the dumbest, most oblivious, most missing the point, most “I must swiftly google stuff to make it look like I know stuff to dig me out a hole” and most ham-fisted attempted deflection post of 2010. Do tell! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/200 "2010-01-07T02:13:59Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Just like, if we had a commercial of filth-caked Aborigines dancing around a fire and someone distracting them with pretty baubles while someone else spirited away their children in a bus, followed by a scene of those children grown up into adults wearing Polo shirts and the slogan “Polo: a little bit more… civilized.” > Well… it’d be a little bit odd to claim that the Aussies were imposing their cultural chauvinism on us because obviously we have no history of brutalizing Aborigines. How is this in any way, in any way at all, analogous to the KFC ad? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886.md?page=11)