# No, you ignoramuses, this \*isn't\* racist (or, "Here we go again..") **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2010, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886 "2010-01-06T11:09:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/241 "2010-01-07T04:15:38Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Where might I have learned that kidnapping Aboriginal children to raise them in my culture would be frowned upon and have a specific history attached? Surely it is unreasonable for you to ask this of me if it was not shown to me in an Australian TV show… right? So, we come back to my previous question: in what TV show, movie, song, play, book or comic strip might out Australian friends have learned that black people are supposed to like fried chicken? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/242 "2010-01-07T04:16:19Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Death ray: stick to your Colbert impersonation. Your Kresksin schtick sucks. Care to address the points rather than comparing what I’m saying to people I haven’t heard of (yes really, your culture is not as all encompassing as you seem to think.) > [@](#): > > Where might I have learned that kidnapping Aboriginal children to raise them in my culture would be frowned upon and have a specific history attached? Surely it is unreasonable for you to ask this of me if it was not shown to me in an Australian TV show… right? Would it be culturally insensitive to Aboriginals to have an ad featuring an African American who gets kidnapped? Dude, we’re not lying, we really hadn’t heard about this fried chicken thing, and now that we have headr about it we’re having a hard time tying it into an ad about West Indian cricket fans. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/243 "2010-01-07T04:17:52Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Sentences work best when you read all of them instead of stopping when a word… oh, shiny!!! My point is that it doesn’t _need_ a specific history attached to be seen as bad. Kidnapping is _inherently_ bad in a way that liking fried chicken is not. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/244 "2010-01-07T04:18:41Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Where might I have learned that kidnapping Aboriginal children to raise them in my culture would be frowned upon and have a specific history attached? Surely it is unreasonable for you to ask this of me if it was not shown to me in an Australian TV show… right? To echo **Grumman** , one would hope that the wrongness of kidnapping for the purposes of cultural indoctrination would be self-evident. (Obviously it wasn’t self-evident when it happened, but the same can be said of slavery, too.) Unlike kidnapping a race to “fix” them, there is nothing inherently racist about depicting a black person eating fried chicken – any racism only occurs within a specific cultural context. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/245 "2010-01-07T04:19:09Z")
> [@](#): > > My point is that it doesn’t need a specific history attached to be seen as bad. Kidnapping is inherently bad in a way that liking fried chicken is not. The devil you say. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/246 "2010-01-07T04:20:59Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > My point is that it doesn’t _need_ a specific history attached to be seen as bad. Yes, I am well aware of the mechanic you used to totally dodge what I was saying. Yet again, the important part is the part you chose to avoid. Yet again, I know that kidnapping Aboriginal children to ‘civilize’ them has cultural baggage in Australia. And yet, I have not seen this in any TV show, movie, etc… Praise God, it’s a miracle. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/247 "2010-01-07T04:24:20Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > I can’t get from “bored guy shares KFC and makes friends” to “intimidated white guy hands over KFC to fend off perceived threat”. Nor should you have to–all I get from this inane straw man is that you didn’t understand my point. > [@](#): > > As has been mentioned upthread, this ad was just one in a series of TV commercials where our hero Mick needed to find a way to get some peace and quiet to watch the CRICKET. > > This is not about race, in any way, shape or form. Cricket is by far the more serious issue facing Australians at the moment. I understand that it’s not \*about \*race, but it’s a strange kind of Straight Dope intellectual PCness to pretend that race can ever be perfectly excluded. I’m saying the color of their skin is just one more bit of sensory input, in addition to their behavior, what they’re wearing, etc. In the ad, it served as a visual contrast if nothing else, and I’m sure there were some for whom the image was strengthened for it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/248 "2010-01-07T04:28:22Z")
**FinnAgain** , why does it strike you as remarkable that one piece of the US cultural landscape hasn’t taken root abroad? Surely you’d agree that living within the US would expose you to cultural elements that you wouldn’t have experienced otherwise, correct? And FWIW, I love Colbert dearly, but you realise that he’s parodying a US-specific breed of right-wing pundit, right? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/249 "2010-01-07T04:28:47Z")
You understand, of course, that the kidnapping of children for cultural indoctrination might get a little more play in the popular media than dietary preferences? Now, if this commercial was somehow suggesting that the only way to deal with unruly West Indian cricket supporters was to hang one or two from trees as an example, you’d have an excellent point, since I’d expect even an Australian to know a little about the Jim Crow South. Instead, you seem to be arguing that since you know something about the history of racism in Australia, Australians should know everything about the history of racism in America. I submit that you may have overestimated the appeal to foreigners of Chris Rock. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/250 "2010-01-07T04:32:35Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yes, I am well aware of the mechanic you used to totally dodge what I was saying. Yet again, the important part is the part you chose to avoid. Yet again, I know that kidnapping Aboriginal children to ‘civilize’ them has cultural baggage in Australia. And yet, I have not seen this in any TV show, movie, etc… > > Praise God, it’s a miracle. > Right? What the ever-loving fuck are you talking about? The “Stolen Generation” really isn’t _that_ touchy an issue to most people here. It was a long time ago, the Government said “Sorry”, cheques were cut, the country moved on. It’s not something you should make jokes about or anything, but it’s not this Spectre Of Past Wrongdoings clouding the country’s culture the way slavery and racism are in the US. It’s been the central subject of at least one film (_Rabbit-Proof Fence_), and whilst most people agree that the forcible removal of Aboriginal children was, **at best** , well-intentioned but horribly flawed, it’s not something your “Average Australian” feels that they A) had anything to do with or B) should feel sorry or guilty for. Do you know how much influence Aboriginal culture has on the daily lives of your Average Australian? Absolutely none. Zero. Nothing. So I’ve got no idea what the fuck you’re blathering on about with this analogy, but honestly, I think it’s time to admit you’re out of your depth, have no idea of the context of the ad (or Australian life in general, from the sounds of it), and are, quite simply, wrong in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/251 "2010-01-07T04:33:56Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Do you know how much influence Aboriginal culture has on the daily lives of your Average Australian? Absolutely none. Zero. Nothing. Liar! There were, like, _three_ of them in _Crocodile Dundee_! ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/252 "2010-01-07T04:37:33Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yes, I am well aware of the mechanic you used to totally dodge what I was saying. Yet again, the important part is the part you chose to avoid. Yet again, I know that kidnapping Aboriginal children to ‘civilize’ them has cultural baggage in Australia. And yet, I have not seen this in any TV show, movie, etc… > > Praise God, it’s a miracle. > Right? Well, you can start with the movie [Rabbit Proof Fence](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0252444/), which is about Aboriginal children stolen from their parents. And then you can Google the phrase “stolen generation” to see just how topical and under discussion this is in Australia in the present. And then you can stop pretending that it’s anything like the unspoken taboo of suggesting that black people like fried chicken. This is so completely, unspeakably stupid. The original point was that we had no idea about your stereotype because it isn’t on our cultural radar. It hasn’t reached us through the media you export to us. Turning it around doesn’t make any sense. Any ad featuring the scenario you describe would be offensive no matter what race it was about, for any company or organisation short of, say, Amnesty International. There are surely Australian stereotypes that could be used to sell junk food or other similar products that would offend Australians, but Australians are unlikely to demand the ad be removed and far more likely to shrug it off as “They don’t know about that. It’s an Aussie thing”. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/253 "2010-01-07T04:50:33Z")
Any argument to my post #247? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/254 "2010-01-07T04:52:53Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > What the ever-loving fuck are you talking about? I have to admit, I find it fascinating to just what lengths some in your cohort will go to in order to misinterpret/misunderstand analogies, ignore implications, focus on trivialities in order to avoid main points… So you admit that it’s a part of Australia’s history, and that’s been in a whole one movie (:smack:), and yet an American might somehow know about it. The rest of your silly ranting can be ignored, as you’ve pretty much admitted my point. It’s a bit like pulling teeth with tweezers. > [@Lobot](#): > > **FinnAgain** , why does it strike you as remarkable that one piece of the US cultural landscape hasn’t taken root abroad? It doesn’t. I expect quite a few haven’t translated. On the other hand, the fact that a major American company made the commercial for a country with some truly shocking racist issues and deliberately withheld the commercial from American audiences shows me that most likely _someone knew something._ > [@Lobot](#): > > And FWIW, I love Colbert dearly, but you realise that he’s parodying a US-specific breed of right-wing pundit, right? You’re missing the meat of the issue. It’s not necessarily a parody of a right-wing pundit, but of someone who sanctimoniously and patently disingenuously claims to not see race and that those who do are really racists. That it applies to both right-wing pundits and some Australians is simply icing on the cake. > [@Cazzle](#): > > This is so completely, unspeakably stupid. Agreed. Your dodge is pretty stupid. In the course of a twisted argument against the blatantly obvious point you are, in the exact same manner as many in your cohort, employing the exact same patently obvious sidestep. Oddly enough, two of you pointed to an obscure movie, again arguing my point for me, that it isn’t at all unreasonable to expect Americans to know about Australian history even though it hasn’t been featured prominently in any blockbuster TV shows that we watch. Now of course you’re latching onto the technicality that, darn, kidnapping is wrong so the fact that Americans might understand the specific cultural reference to Australian culture can be ignored because, well… kidnapping is wrong!!! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/255 "2010-01-07T04:54:57Z")
Don’t forget, they don’t even _have_ fried chicken in Australia! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/256 "2010-01-07T04:57:08Z")
This whole thread is just getting more and more surreal. On the other hand, “I know _something_ about Australia, so I bet you really do know this specific and abstruse factoid about America!” is pure comedy gold. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/257 "2010-01-07T04:57:43Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > So you admit that it’s a part of Australia’s history, and that’s been in a whole one movie (:smack:), and yet an American might somehow know about it. The rest of your silly ranting can be ignored, as you’ve pretty much admitted my point. It’s a bit like pulling teeth with tweezers. I don’t ever recall mentioning that an American should know about it. You’re the one who brought it up in the first place as I recall. But yes, it’s part of Australia’s history as anyone who’s spent more than about a month in the country should know. It’s not secret or anything, but nor is it something we expect everyone in the world to know about. You know, how you expect everyone in the world to know that Black people liking Fried Chicken is some sort of negative racist stereotype… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/258 "2010-01-07T04:58:49Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > You know, how you expect everyone in the world to know that Black people liking Fried Chicken is some sort of negative racist stereotype… Not everyone. Just Australians, so far. You should feel special, I think. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/259 "2010-01-07T05:01:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t get the ad. What is the “awkward situation”? Could it be a lone white guy surround by persons of color, who then makes friends by supplying fried chicken? Or more likely the lone Australian supporter in a sea of west indian supporters? The cultural perspective really needs to be understood here…the guy speaking had a very distinctive aussie accent, he was wearing an aussie team jeresey, the competition between aussie and the windes is quite legendary, the supporters around him fit exactly what is seen on the tv when matches are screened live. I vote for not racist in the slightest. yes you could use other teams / groups to convey the same thing, but then the (ad) agency would have to work harder to convey the meaning - here it is is easy. I know now that there will be the many people come and say that they are being lazy and exactly why and how the barmy army should have been used, but I think its equally racist to say we cant use windes supporters as to use them for the obvious (and easy) contrast they supply. At the end of the day the difference is in the team supported, not in the race, hence its not racist ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/260 "2010-01-07T05:07:12Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I don’t ever recall mentioning that an American should know about it. You’re the one who brought it up in the first place as I recall. What exactly do I have to do to get, say, three of you to stop dodging my points? Two of you? Yet again, the point was that Americans can and do know about Australian historical racism without having had it in tv/movies/whatever. Much like it’s been claimed that no Australians (or American company execs working in Austalia) can be expected to know probably one of the single most long-standing and well known American racist tropes. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > You know, how you expect everyone in the world to know that Black people liking Fried Chicken is some sort of negative racist stereotype… I am truly amazed. Do a few of you get together and plan ways to be really wrong, in concert? Are you echoing RNATB and confusing your imagination with my words, or can you find anywhere that I said everybody in the world should know, well, any specific thing at all? Hell, even RNATB realized that I didn’t say that about the world. Of course he still is confusing his imagination with reality and thinks I said it about Australians. Ah well. So, so far we’ve had tacit admissions that it’s perfectly reasonable to expect a certain degree of knowledge about another culture even if they haven’t shown you many movies/tv shows about it. Progress is being made. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886.md?page=14)