# No, you ignoramuses, this \*isn't\* racist (or, "Here we go again..") **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2010, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886 "2010-01-06T11:09:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/381 "2010-01-07T21:22:14Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Ogilvy & Mather are a U.S. company, though. It all comes back to the autonomy of the regional divisions. AFAICT, this ad was made by Australians for an Australian audience, and there’s no reason to think the American divisions knew anything about the ad. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/382 "2010-01-07T21:25:06Z")
Sure, but maybe they should have considering the reaction to the ad. The Internet is pretty global–things travel. And yeah, it’s easy to say people should just get over it, but is that happening now? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/383 "2010-01-07T21:26:36Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > You in the US have the Great Unspoken Fried Chicken and Watermelon Stereotype. Imagine if you will a slightly different scenario: > > Mick is sitting in the stands watching Australia bat against the Tourists, surrounded by a group of noisy and gregarious Windies supporters. The current test series is being sponsored\*\* not\*\* by KFC, but by **De Bortoli Wines**. In an attempt to get the crowd to shut the fuck up, he produces a cask of wine from under the trestle-seat and presents the goon in an act of bon-homie to his immediate (black) neighbours. The stereotype of a white person being surrounded by and afraid of dark-skinned people is so deep-rooted in American culture that that ad could not work in the United States, for any product. It doesn’t matter whether a particular American viewing the ad is white, black, personally bigoted, or personally open-minded–said viewer would giggle (or get angry) and think, “the white guy is afraid of the black people”. The surrounding crowd would have to be multi-racial, end of story. If a multi-racial crowd wouldn’t work (as for a visiting African or West Indian team), then the ad wouldn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/384 "2010-01-07T21:27:53Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Ogilvy & Mather are a U.S. company, though. Advertising agencies also work on a regional basis, though. I work in international marketing and advertising, and we always let local agencies come up with campaigns appropriate to the region. There’s no way we would dictate what a local agency tells us is right, because we simply don’t have the experience, cultural understanding, and expertise that is specific to the market we’re trying to influence. Furthermore, most overseas offices of advertising agencies are run on a semi-franchise basis. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/385 "2010-01-07T21:29:53Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Sure, but maybe they should have considering the reaction to the ad. :smack: How can you consider the reaction to an ad when you aren’t even aware that there is the likelihood of a reaction? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/386 "2010-01-07T21:32:50Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > The stereotype of a white person being surrounded by and afraid of dark-skinned people is so deep-rooted in American culture that that ad could not work in the United States, for any product. It doesn’t matter whether a particular American viewing the ad is white, black, personally bigoted, or personally open-minded–said viewer would giggle (or get angry) and think, “the white guy is afraid of the black people”. > > The surrounding crowd would have to be multi-racial, end of story. If a multi-racial crowd wouldn’t work (as for a visiting African or West Indian team), then the ad wouldn’t work. But do you understand the implication of offering a cask of (cheap) wine to a group of black people? Does this ping your racism-meter as a US citizen? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/387 "2010-01-07T21:33:41Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Sure, but maybe they should have considering the reaction to the ad. The Internet is pretty global–things travel. And yeah, it’s easy to say people should just get over it, but is that happening now? I am sure they did. What is apparent though is that they underestimated the ability of some to willfully ignore context. Assuming aren’t backing the (IMHO ridiculous) position of **Fear Itself** that this was deliberate on the part of KFC Australia, let me ask you this. Do you think a foreign company should, on moral grounds, not as a business decision, avoid marketing materials that have no negative connotation in the market in which they were used, but that, if viewed in the United States, might have unintended negative connotations? If so, is it just because the company concerned has an American parent? I’m not trying any kind of gotcha here - I actually want to understand where you are coming from because I don’t think you have taken that extra step to looking at this as a deliberate plan on behalf of KFC to drum up business from the Sydney Klavern. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/388 "2010-01-07T21:34:31Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Sure, but maybe they should have considering the reaction to the ad. The Internet is pretty global–things travel. And yeah, it’s easy to say people should just get over it, but is that happening now? “Hey, we’re shooting an ad with _looks around_ _black fellas_ in it. Do with need to clear this with America?” You are effectively suggesting that every TV advertising campaign from now until the end of time should be cleared with Americans (and presumably every other cultural group) to ensure that it might not accidentally offend anybody if uploaded to YouTube. > [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > The stereotype of a white person being surrounded by and afraid of dark-skinned people is so deep-rooted in American culture that that ad could not work in the United States, for any product. It doesn’t matter whether a particular American viewing the ad is white, black, personally bigoted, or personally open-minded–said viewer would giggle (or get angry) and think, “the white guy is afraid of the black people”. I would agree with this. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/389 "2010-01-07T21:35:04Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > :smack: How can you consider the reaction to an ad when you aren’t even aware that there is the likelihood of a reaction? Well, I guess you can’t, but they’re probably going to work a lot harder to prevent something like this from happening in the future. I’m guessing that they’re really going to cover their asses with another ad with black people in it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/390 "2010-01-07T21:36:23Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, I guess you can’t, but they’re probably going to work a lot harder to prevent something like this from happening in the future. I’m guessing that they’re really going to cover their asses with another ad with black people in it. This part is probably true, and it’s sad. Another victory for the lowest common denominator. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/391 "2010-01-07T21:36:46Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > But do you understand the implication of offering a cask of (cheap) wine to a group of black people? Does this ping your racism-meter as a US citizen? Yes, that would make it even worse. But my point is, the context is problematic (to Americans) even before considering the particular “gift” being proferred. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/392 "2010-01-07T21:40:12Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > :smack: How can you consider the reaction to an ad when you aren’t even aware that there is the likelihood of a reaction? Which brings us full-circle to a certain lack of comprehension of international matters from some people. **Freudian Slit** , did you see the KFC ad from the Caribbean posted earlier? It associates black people with fried chicken! Should the makers of that ad have considered the effect the ad has on the US? Why isn’t there an outcry about that?! Do they need to cover their asses? No! Because it’s **not made for the US** FFS!!! The US isn’t _and shouldn’t be_ a consideration when making ads for a local market. Jesus H Christ on a bike. Mutter mutter mutter this thread continues to be utterly unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/393 "2010-01-07T21:40:13Z")
I can’t think of any situation in which you could offer alcoholic beverages to a specific racial grouping (including white people) without it looking bad. 21-34 year old white males, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/394 "2010-01-07T21:48:18Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > You in the US have the Great Unspoken Fried Chicken and Watermelon Stereotype. Imagine if you will a slightly different scenario: > > Mick is sitting in the stands watching Australia bat against the Tourists, surrounded by a group of noisy and gregarious Windies supporters. The current test series is being sponsored\*\* not\*\* by KFC, but by **De Bortoli Wines**. In an attempt to get the crowd to shut the fuck up, he produces a cask of wine from under the trestle-seat and presents the goon in an act of bon-homie to his immediate (black) neighbours. > > How would those of you in the US view this act in terms of being immediately and blatantly racist? Why would you waste wine when 40s of malt liquor would go over much better? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/395 "2010-01-07T21:49:02Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Yes, that would make it even worse. But my point is, the context is problematic (to Americans) even before considering the particular “gift” being proferred. I guess I’m not making my point very well here. 🙂 Y’see, in Australia, fried chicken is not regarded as a cultural indicator (for want of a better term). It means absolutely nothing to the Australian audience. But were the advertisement to show a **cask of wine** being handed around, I believe everyone here would understand the racist implications: that the Windies _are just like the_ Aborigines because of the colour of their skin, and therefore a box of goon will calm them down and allow Mick the opportunity to watch his beloved cricket match in peace. Here, that stereotype is pervasive and would raise many a hackle if such an ad were to be shown. I wonder if it would garner such a vehement reaction in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/396 "2010-01-07T21:50:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I can’t think of any situation in which you could offer alcoholic beverages to a specific racial grouping (including white people) without it looking bad. 21-34 year old white males, perhaps. Well, it’s not to you, but an Australian might be offended, since alcoholism is Down Under mostly a “black” problem and most alcoholics there are… guess Let’s put a German twist on the debate, watch the Video. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FZI99nwv9VA/hqdefault.jpg "dj otzi") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZI99nwv9VA) …would any US citizen be offended by this? They are clearly taking the piss on fast food, right? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/397 "2010-01-07T21:56:19Z")
I meant to say from an American perspective. Should have been more clear. **kambuckta** , is there something specific to the _cask_ which makes it offensive? Are Aborigines not supposed to drink from bottles? Or is it just that it’s alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/398 "2010-01-07T21:58:01Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Well, it’s not to you, but an Australian might be offended, since alcoholism is Down Under mostly a “black” problem and most alcoholics there are… guess Well, to be more precise, alcoholism is a problem right through the community, black AND white, but alcohol abuse _is_ a major issue for many Aboriginal folk, particularly in remote areas of the country. Just to get the record straight. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/399 "2010-01-07T21:58:18Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Yes, that would make it even worse. But my point is, the context is problematic (to Americans) even before considering the particular “gift” being proferred. Which is pretty much the problem right there isn’t it? Having a white guy amongst some black people is problematic to Americans. What they don’t seem to get is that it is not necessarily problematic to other countries (it _can_ be problematic, it depends on further context.) ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/400 "2010-01-07T22:05:36Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > I guess I’m not making my point very well here. 🙂 > > Y’see, in Australia, fried chicken is not regarded as a cultural indicator (for want of a better term). It means absolutely nothing to the Australian audience. > > But were the advertisement to show a **cask of wine** being handed around, I believe everyone here would understand the racist implications: that the Windies _are just like the_ Aborigines because of the colour of their skin, and therefore a box of goon will calm them down and allow Mick the opportunity to watch his beloved cricket match in peace. Here, that stereotype is pervasive and would raise many a hackle if such an ad were to be shown. > > I wonder if it would garner such a vehement reaction in the US? I don’t think so but if you offered a group of black US Americans some grape drink it might. Dave Chappelle explains. [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6609610050744968737#](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6609610050744968737#) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886.md?page=21)