# No, you ignoramuses, this \*isn't\* racist (or, "Here we go again..") **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2010, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886 "2010-01-06T11:09:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/161 "2010-01-06T21:02:33Z")
**Fear Itself** …no response to post #140 at all? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/162 "2010-01-06T21:03:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I do loves me my chicken. > > I would ask the OP, is this actually being discussed at all in Australia? So one American – what, TV show?, webcast? – gets hold of this and coomments on it, and those comments get linked to back in Australia? > > And why would anyone be surprised that Americans would consider it racist? Various posters added some context – it ran during a West Indian soccer team tour, it stopped when they left, etc. Well, there’s no hint of that in the ad itself, and Americans wouldn’t have a clue. But watching the ad itself, without any wider contextual knowledge, it is IMO clearly racist. I’m surprised that anyone would consider it racist because there’s no racist implication in it. It’s a white guy sharing his chicken with some black people. I guess the black/chicken think might come to mind, but there’s no reason why an American should expect foreigners to associate black people with fried chicken. Anyway, KFC’s core business is… fried chicken. I doubt it would do much to enhance their brand image if whitey shared some coleslaw or potato wedges with the black people. Now, **Fear Itself** has decided that a white guy alone in a crowd of black people _must_ automatically be afraid of them. To me, that says more about **FI** ’s personal terror of crowds and/or black people than it does about anything else, but simply watching the ad makes it pretty obvious that the guy is in no way attempting to depict fear. He looks a tad bored, maybe unhappy or frustrated, but there’s no hint of fear or even nervousness. > [@](#): > > And I’ll bet that if KFC America had seen the ad in advance, it never would have run. Somehow I suspect KFC America is not _terribly_ worried about losing its Australian-African-American customers. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/163 "2010-01-06T21:08:30Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Why should anyone give a flying fuck what Americans think about it? It’s an Australian ad aimed at Australians. Should everyone in the world have to run everything past Americans in case there any objections? > > Also > > I’d read the thread again if I were you. Apparently the OP does, so you yourself might do a little re-reading. And – cricket, soccer, WTF? ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/164 "2010-01-06T21:31:06Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I would ask the OP, is this actually being discussed at all in Australia? So one American – what, TV show?, webcast? – gets hold of this and coomments on it, and those comments get linked to back in Australia? It’s currently the [second most popular news story](http://www.news.com.au/world/kfc-ad-labelled-racist-by-us-commentators/story-e6frfkyi-1225816554071) on Australia’s most popular news website. The Huffington Post also has an [article](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/05/kfcs-racist-ad-australian_n_412002.html) on it. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/165 "2010-01-06T21:34:18Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > And – cricket, soccer, WTF? This, in combination with your attitude that if something might be offensive in the US, it shouldn’t be run by a multinational in other countries where is clearly isn’t offensive, kind of gives you a whole “ugly american” vibe, there. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/166 "2010-01-06T21:44:22Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Apparently the OP does, so you yourself might do a little re-reading. Eh? I’m not the OP, my point still stands. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/167 "2010-01-06T21:45:49Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > And – cricket, soccer, WTF? Oh, and nice one. Bit too foreign for you? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/168 "2010-01-06T21:51:16Z")
Did I say it shouldn’t be run? I said if the American parent company saw it, they probably wouldn’t have allowed it to be run. And as for the soccer/cricket ‘issue’, what I was trying to say was that the sport was not relevant. It could have been baseball or hurling for that matter, except there might not be masses of people watching either in Australia. And if Australians don’t care what Americans think of their media programs, then don’t ask us, and don’t tell us how wrong we are when we give our opinions. **KelleyCriterion** ’s link say the Aussie KFC has acknowledged that they understand why many Americans might perceive it as racist. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/169 "2010-01-06T21:52:43Z")
The sport is quite relevant, in this case, since there’s no West Indian association football team. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/170 "2010-01-06T21:55:21Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Did I say it shouldn’t be run? I said if the American parent company saw it, they probably wouldn’t have allowed it to be run. And as for the soccer/cricket ‘issue’, what I was trying to say was that the sport was not relevant. It could have been baseball or hurling for that matter, except there might not be masses of people watching either in Australia. The sport is massively relevant. Anyone who has been to a test match with West Indian fans understands why it is relevant, and understands the ad. People who haven’t are presuming racism in something they simply don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/171 "2010-01-06T21:59:16Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > **Fear Itself** …no response to post #140 at all? I thought I covered most of it, but I will sum up. > [@Asimovian](#): > > Do you believe this was done intentionally by KFC and/or their ad agency? Yes, I do. > [@](#): > > Your implication is that KFC is giving a nod to people who support negative stereotypes while still maintaining plausible deniability. I would argue that a big-name corporation wouldn’t take such an unnecessary risk. Why try to rope in a few racist stragglers at the risk of offending a large population of potential consumers? And plausible deniability doesn’t work here, because no one has to PROVE that KFC intentionally put out a racist ad before people will get upset and begin boycotting. You really think that would be worth the risk for a corporation with that kind of visibility? Isn’t it far, FAR more likely that the target audience (ALL of the target audience) simply wouldn’t see it the way you’re seeing it? First, I don’t think is a blatantly racist message, I think it is a subtle appeal to racial stereotypes. Second, I don’t think it is a few racist stragglers that hold that opinion in Australia, I think it is far more widespread than you want to admit. Last, I think a lot of people won’t even realize the racial message, yet will be moved by it subconsciously. You and others have tried to portray me as making charges of blatant racism. I am not. I think there is subtle racial content in the ad that appeals to racial stereotypes. That doesn’t make it raging racism. That you cannot allow for the existence of any kind of racial discrimination in Australian culture and the possibility that advertisers might appeal to it is just being naive. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/172 "2010-01-06T22:04:15Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Eh? I’m not the OP, my point still stands. My point is the OP seems to care what Americans think about the ad, or this thread wouldn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/173 "2010-01-06T22:37:54Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > My point is the OP seems to care what Americans think about the ad, or this thread wouldn’t exist. That’s still completely nothing to do with my post. I’ll quote it again to make it easier for you: > [@](#): > > Why should anyone give a flying fuck what Americans think about it? It’s an Australian ad aimed at Australians. Should everyone in the world have to run everything past Americans in case there any objections? The relevant part is: > [@](#): > > Why should anyone give a flying fuck what Americans think about it? Do you see now? I’ll give you a hint: the OP is included in the scope of this statement. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/174 "2010-01-06T22:47:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > First, I don’t think is a blatantly racist message, I think it is a subtle appeal to racial stereotypes. Second, I don’t think it is a few racist stragglers that hold that opinion in Australia, I think it is far more widespread than you want to admit. Last, I think a lot of people won’t even realize the racial message, yet will be moved by it subconsciously. > > You and others have tried to portray me as making charges of blatant racism. I am not. I think there is subtle racial content in the ad that appeals to racial stereotypes. That doesn’t make it raging racism. That you cannot allow for the existence of any kind of racial discrimination in Australian culture and the possibility that advertisers might appeal to it is just being naive. You’re attributing statements to me that I never made – something I made a point of not doing to you. Oh, well. At any rate, I don’t have any reason to think that racism is non-existent in Australian culture or any other culture. I’ve also haven’t said that the only type of racism that exists is overt, or “raging” – as you put it – racism. The point that I was getting at is that the idea of KFC making even the most subtle of appeals to a negative stereotype offers little to zero reward for them. Is the thinking that, had the ad featured a rainbow of skin tones, a certain segment of consumers would not have spent money there, whereas now, thanks to the racial overtones, those same consumers are willing to spend? And the potential risk, no matter how clever they might have thought they were being, is tremendous if any sort of backlash – justified or not – was to arise from people feeling like there was a racial motivation for portraying events as they did in the commercial. So I’m asking you to explain to me WHY the company would be motivated to take that chance? It just doesn’t make sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/175 "2010-01-06T23:04:52Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > The point that I was getting at is that the idea of KFC making even the most subtle of appeals to a negative stereotype offers little to zero reward for them. I disagree. I think it does provide a marketing advantage if they can appeal to those can identify with the discomfort they actor is displaying, even if they don’t think they are overtly racist. The degree of that advantage obviously hinges on how strongly each of us believes the white/non-white dynamic is in Australian culture. Clearly, you disagree with me. S’OK ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/176 "2010-01-06T23:13:48Z")
As an Australian, I don’t get why the OP, or anyone, cares what Americans think of the ad. So they don’t understand, so what? It’s just a storm in a teacup, because it’s the silly season here. I do understand what **Fear Itself** is saying about rac **ial** overtones, but I don’t see how that would make the ad rac **ist**. What bad things are being said (or implied) about any race here? It’s possibly unPC to say that someone might be uncomfortable in a group of people who are not like them, whether that’s because of race, or because they barrack for a different sports team, but where is the racism, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/177 "2010-01-06T23:22:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I disagree. I think it does provide a marketing advantage if they can appeal to those can identify with the discomfort they actor is displaying, even if they don’t think they are overtly racist. The degree of that advantage obviously hinges on how strongly each of us believes the white/non-white dynamic is in Australian culture. Clearly, you disagree with me. S’OK The fact that we disagree over the level of racial dynamics in Australia is not a problem for me. You think there’s a marketing advantage to be gained, and while I don’t really agree, it doesn’t change the rest of my question. Do you think that there is _any_ realistic level of advantage to be gained that would make the risk of a backlash worthwhile? Or do you just not think there’s any risk? (And since someone upthread mentioned that this was apparently the #2 hot topic in Australia at the moment, I stand by the idea that this would be a risky strategy for a company to take.) ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/178 "2010-01-06T23:33:17Z")
The way I see it, here are the facts: [ol] [li]the ad was played during a match between Australia and the West Indies[/li][li]international cricket, by its very nature, encourages friendly rivalry between culturally- and regionally-distinct groups[/li][li]there is no racist stereotype associating black people and fried chicken in Australia[/li][li]this is, however, one of a series of ads with the theme of “KFC gets guy out of an awkward situation”[/li][/ol] These points alone explain the ad’s intended meaning – injecting further assumptions is totally unwarranted. Had Australia been playing against England, and the opposing team’s supporters were all white but similarly crowding-out the ad’s hero, would the ad suddenly stop being racist? What’s annoying is the cultural chauvinism on display from some Americans here and elsewhere. I want to repeat the point **yojimbo** made earlier because I think it gets to the heart of things: > [@](#): > > Should all US media sources that jokingly talk about fannies stop because most of the rest of the english speaking world think Americans are talking about vaginas and not the arse? > > Should every ad in the western world that has sexualised females in them be stopped because they offend a lot of people in the middle east? > > Should the rest of the world call black people African Americans? Seriously, why should we bow to the US’s cultural frame-of-reference as the arbiter of what’s in bad taste? By claiming that the ad is inherently racist – not that any perceived racism is merely the result of viewing another culture through an American cultural lens – the implication seems to be that American culture represents an objective standard by which all other cultures should be judged. ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/179 "2010-01-06T23:41:14Z")
Anyone thinking this is racist is projecting their own racial internal conflicts all over it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886/180 "2010-01-07T00:04:43Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I had no idea how big KFC is outside of America, or even that it did business outside of America, until this thread. And I don’t appreciate the condescending tone of your posts. Did I start out being snarky to you? That’s the problem isn’t it? You have no idea about KFC outside of the US, you have no idea about cricket, you have no idea about Australia, and you have no idea about the West Indies. You are commenting from a position of extreme ignorance. Edit: Ditto to what **kingbighair** said, anyone who has a problem with this ad portraying a scared white guy surrounded by unruly African Americans and taming them with their favourite food, fried chicken, is simply projecting their own country’s problems and prejudices on to something that is totally unrelated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-you-ignoramuses-this-isnt-racist-or-here-we-go-again/523886.md?page=10)