# " "nobody is listening to your telephone calls." Obama lied **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117 "2013-06-16T12:47:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/1 "2013-06-16T12:47:54Z")
So Obama claims that “nobody is listening to your telephone calls.” In fact, “he said federal judge approval is needed to actually listen to a phone call.” And yet - NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants > **[NSA spying flap extends to contents of U.S. phone calls](https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u-s-phone-calls/)** > > National Security Agency discloses in secret Capitol Hill briefing that thousands of analysts can listen to domestic phone calls. That authorization appears to extend to e-mail and text messages too. Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed this week that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed “simply based on an analyst deciding that.” If the NSA wants “to listen to the phone,” an analyst’s decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. “I was rather startled,” said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee. … A requirement of the 2008 law is that the NSA “may not intentionally target any person known at the time of acquisition to be located in the United States.” A possible interpretation of that language, some legal experts said, is that the agency may vacuum up everything it can domestically – on the theory that indiscriminate data acquisition was not intended to “target” a specific American citizen. Isn’t it wonderful? They can’t “target” anyone, so they can “target” everyone. Obama lies about this. Clapper lies about this to Congress. Yes, sure, “he welcomes debate” on it. Gotta love this too: “Jameel Jaffer, director of the ACLU’s Center for Democracy, says he was surprised to see the 2008 FISA Amendments Act be used to vacuum up information on American citizens. “Everyone who voted for the statute thought it was about international communications,” he said.”. Well, Jameel, you see that all depends on what the NSA and the Justice Dept. decide to interpret the words “information”, “communications”, “intentional”, “target” and “was” mean. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/2 "2013-06-16T13:45:22Z")
Can you prove that Obama knew of such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/3 "2013-06-16T13:53:18Z")
Your cite does not say the NSA has listened to any calls without warrants. It says they could. If you have evidence they actually listened to calls illegally, post it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/4 "2013-06-16T14:00:40Z")
Personally I don’t know why people are all so excited. I’ve just taken it as a given for as long as I can recall that the NSA and so forth were listening to American phone calls and other communications. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/5 "2013-06-16T14:09:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Can you prove that Obama knew of such a thing? No. Actually he knows almost nothing about what has happened during his administration. It’s a great excuse. Or is it? Sometimes I wonder how blindly faithful a group of voters are willing to be as evidence mounts that there seems to be no one at the helm. Or that, if he is, he has a set of value not as virtuous as he has presented. As far as knowing that citizens are being spied on, it’s been no surprise to me either. That’s been going on longer than I’ve been alive. But weren’t we promised change and transparency? Both sides are hopelessly corrupt. They spend all their time in blame and divisiveness. Get 'em all out. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/6 "2013-06-16T14:20:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Can you prove that Obama knew of such a thing? > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Your cite does not say the NSA has listened to any calls without warrants. It says they could. If you have evidence they actually listened to calls illegally, post it. That’s just sad. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/7 "2013-06-16T14:22:02Z")
[Sean Hannity then and now](http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/sean-hannity-flip-flops-domestic-spying-article-1.1372300) > [@Sean Hannity](#): > > Our techniques are working. We’ve got the NSA program, the Patriot Act program … it’s staggering to me that we’re even debating the use of these techniques in this country at this time. > [@Sean Hannity](#): > > These actions by the Obama administration are a clear, very clear, violation of the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable search and seizure. > [@](#): > > In interviews with then-President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, he lauded the spying and mocked those who disagreed. > > Apparently, collecting information on Americans is a good thing if Hannity likes the President behind the policy, but a sacrilegious violation of the Constitution if it’s coming from an administration he frowns upon. In other words, IOKIARDI. I suspect that certain posters here (and certainly many conservatives across the nation) had no problem with Bush’s surveillance program. No doubt they trotted out the old ‘If you aren’t doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear’ line. But now that Obama is continuing Bush’s program, it’s suddenly The Death Of America. :rolleyes: I opposed it when Bush was doing it, and I oppose it now. It’s disingenuous to oppose Obama’s doing it when you praise Bush for setting it up and doing it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/8 "2013-06-16T15:20:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s just sad. Conservatives say that a lot. Must be someone else’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/9 "2013-06-16T15:33:46Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Conservatives say that a lot. Must be someone else’s fault. ‘Libertarians: All the Freedom, and none of the Responsibility!’ ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/10 "2013-06-16T15:39:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Can you prove that Obama knew of such a thing? Isn’t his job to know what’s going on during his presidency? I was pretty young back then but “I didn’t know” didn’t seem to go over very well when Reagan made the claim, either. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/11 "2013-06-16T15:42:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Your cite does not say the NSA has listened to any calls without warrants. It says they could. If you have evidence they actually listened to calls illegally, post it. What the NSA was actually doing with the calls is much scarier than listening to them. That’s basically a red herring designed to throw you off the real scent- they’re tracking _who you call_ not _what you say_. To me the issue is Freedom of Association rather than any sort of privacy concern. No government agency has any business tracking who I associate with. Edit- “with whom I associate.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/12 "2013-06-16T16:09:40Z")
Rants are for The BBQ Pit. So moved. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/13 "2013-06-16T16:39:29Z")
Update: [Nadler today steps back](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/16/rogers-nsa-is-not-listening-to-americans-phone-calls/?hpt=hp_t2) from his statement. > [@](#): > > “I am pleased that the administration has reiterated that, as I have always believed, the NSA cannot listen to the content of Americans’ phone calls without a specific warrant," Nadler said. So so far it does not seem that Obama stated anything untrue, let alone lied. (Which we’ve established in other administrations are not the same thing.) Not sure if Freedom of Association means that no one can know who you associate with. Just that they cannot stop you from doing so. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/14 "2013-06-16T17:02:14Z")
Well, of course its not happening! You’d need a quadruple-googleflop machine to do it, and you’d have to convert the entire state of Utah into a server! Hmmmm, wait a second, maybe… Your best assurance that the gummint isn’t doing something is the simple fact that the thing you don’t want them to do isn’t possible. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/15 "2013-06-16T17:11:35Z")
Our government is not doing that. They outsourced it to India. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/16 "2013-06-16T17:14:48Z")
Obama (and Bush before him) has pretty much given carte blanche to both the NSA and the CIA throughout his administration (read [The Way of the Knife](http://www.amazon.com/Way-Knife-Secret-Army-Earth/dp/1594204802/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1371402840&sr=1-1&keywords=way+of+the+knife) for ample proof). It’s not at all a stretch to imagine that both agencies are operating beyond their charter, based solely on their own decisions to do so, and not informing the President of each and every decision. “Obama lied” is a convenient dart to throw by conservatives, just like “Bush lied” was convenient for the other side, though provably correct in many cases. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/17 "2013-06-16T17:26:54Z")
They were doing this long before Obama. During the Bush administration terrorists worldwide were learning not to use cellphones because we had the ability to listen in and pinpoint them. Hell, back in the early 90’s a guy I knew got a short term contract to go out east and work on some of the big NSA computers for a couple of months, and he damned well knew what they were being used for. In the late 90’s it was such an open joke that a friend and I would deliberately make up cryptic and interesting sounding phone conversations and emails to mess with the semi-mythical monitoring. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/18 "2013-06-16T18:11:06Z")
Don’t believe anything until it’s officially denied. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/19 "2013-06-16T18:15:55Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Isn’t his job to know what’s going on during his presidency? I was pretty young back then but “I didn’t know” didn’t seem to go over very well when Reagan made the claim, either. I’ve never considered omniscience a job requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117/20 "2013-06-16T18:18:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > So so far it does not seem that Obama stated anything untrue, let alone lied. How much sadness can \*\*Terr \*\*bear in one day??? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-is-listening-to-your-telephone-calls-obama-lied/661117.md?page=2)