# "Nobody really knows what happens after death." Is that just pc BS? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278 "2012-03-09T15:39:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/21 "2012-03-09T18:00:33Z")
1. in the likely event that there isn’t an afterlife, you’ll never know, because the part of you that holds knowledge and understanding ceases to exist. 2. If there is an afterlife: a) You can only be truly dead to know it exists. b) Assuming you can come back from the afterlife, as in NDEs, there’s no way to _scientifically_ determine if any claims of visions of the afterlife are either a process of your brain shutting down in the final moments, or indeed real accounts. From here, all you can do is jump to your own likely conclusion or brand of philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/22 "2012-03-09T18:17:54Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > a) You can only be truly dead to know it exists. What if you are a Buddha or demonic? What if you are [the proverbial golden child who has all the answers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14851809&postcount=19)? > [@cmyk](#): > > 1. in the likely event that there isn’t an afterlife, you’ll never know, because the part of you that holds knowledge and understanding ceases to exist. “Knowledge, from, parents? Understanding from, the world? _We_ have no need for those.” ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/23 "2012-03-09T18:21:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > … to think that we are even close to knowing the answer to the question of Life, The Universe and Everything is the height of hubris. Well, the **answer** to that question isn’t the hard part. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/24 "2012-03-09T19:37:15Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I have never died. And have never met anyone who did. I have no evidence that there exists anything after death. I have no evidence that there does not. First, if you’ve ever seen a corpse then yes, you’ve met someone who has died. Claiming otherwise is using your own conclusion as an argument in support of itself; that there is something left besides that dead body. And there’s plenty of evidence that there’s nothing after death; we know enough of the mind to see that it’s generated by the brain, and that with death the brain decays away. You are basically trying to argue that we don’t have any evidence that a broken light bulb has stopped producing light. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/25 "2012-03-09T20:29:02Z")
This is why I _hate_ GD threads like these; they invariably end up mentioning broken light bulbs. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/26 "2012-03-09T20:55:26Z")
The human brain has about 100 billion neruons and 100 trillion synaptic connections. And what makes us who we are is entirely contained in thosse connections? That kind of makes us sound like little mroe than highly evolved machines. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/27 "2012-03-09T20:56:03Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Saying ‘once you’re dead, that’s it’ is as much of an assumption as a theist type telling you that once you die your soul or whatever will go to heaven, or be reborn, or whatever It’s not an assumption. It’s a declaration based on our knowledge of how things work. The theists declaration isn’t and shouldn’t be considered seriously. > [@shiftless](#): > > What is wrong with saying “Nobody really knows what happens after death?” Should we do that for everything? We don’t really know if a tree makes a sound when it falls if no one is in earshot? We don’t know if our cars disappear in the garage when we’re not there? We don’t need to have absolute knowledge before we make reasonable assertions about the world around us. We know enough about the brain and the absence of evidence of the ability to live without one that there is nothing wrong with concluding we cease to exist when our brains stop functioning. > [@](#): > > Yeah, I am pretty damn sure I just lose conciousness and never get it back but I certainly can’t make claims about anything in particular. Sure you can, and it is totally reasonable to do so. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/28 "2012-03-09T20:59:43Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I don’t understand this at all. You may not _like_ it, but it makes perfect sense. It didn’t make sense to me because I knew that there was something more than this life. As I said, I have no empirical evidence for this, and it’s entirely possible that there is something in my brain chemistry that causes me to believe, but I do believe, and even though I accept all current scientific knowledge about brain function and decay of the physical body after death, and have spent over 10 years on this message board listening to people who don’t believe, I have never stopped believing. So whether someone says to me, “Once you’re dead, that’s it” (as my parents did) or “Nobody really knows what happens after death,” my mind (or maybe just my brain chemistry) is not going to change. As others have pointed out in this thread, there really is no way to present proof that this is all there is. But I figure we’ll all find out soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/29 "2012-03-09T21:07:34Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > So whether someone says to me, “Once you’re dead, that’s it” (as my parents did) or “Nobody really knows what happens after death,” my mind (or maybe just my brain chemistry) is not going to change. What about “Once you’re born, that’s it.”? Think about what I’m _really_ saying.. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/30 "2012-03-09T21:11:36Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Are you saying that there is no evidence that brain activity is necessary for consciousness? Certainly not. There is evidence to support the hypothesis that consciousness ceases upon brain death. I find the evidence personally compelling. But it is still factually correct to say “no one knows for sure.” At the end of the day “what happens after we die” is an untestable question. We can make all sorts of inferences based on questions that actually are testable, and get to a conclusion that seems the most likely. But “really knowing?” Nope. I just think calling it “politically correct bullshit” is mischaracterizing it, that’s all. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > First, if you’ve ever seen a corpse then yes, you’ve met someone who has died. Oh, for fuck’s sake. > [@](#): > > Claiming otherwise is using your own conclusion as an argument in support of itself; that there is something left besides that dead body. Saying that seeing a corpse is the same thing as meeting someone who has died is using your own conclusion as an argument in support of itself; that there is nothing left besides that dead body. > [@](#): > > You are basically trying to argue that we don’t have any evidence that a broken light bulb has stopped producing light. What do you get if you multiply six by nine? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/31 "2012-03-09T21:18:12Z")
> [@andros](#): > > But it is still factually correct to say “no one knows for sure.” At the end of the day “what happens after we die” is an untestable question. We can make all sorts of inferences based on questions that actually are testable, and get to a conclusion that seems the most likely. But “really knowing?” Nope. It’s factually correct to say that about **everything**. We don’t know anything for sure. But the only time people bring up the “no one knows for sure” argument is when discussing propositions that are bat shit crazy. I wonder why that is. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/32 "2012-03-09T21:24:45Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > It’s factually correct to say that about **everything**. We don’t know anything for sure. But the only time people bring up the “no one knows for sure” argument is when discussing propositions that are bat shit crazy. I wonder why that is. “What’s for dinner?” “Nobody knows for sure.” “Is it raining?” “Nobody knows for sure.” "Is the Easter Bunny real? “Nobody knows for sure.” “What time is it?” “Nobody knows for sure.” Why is it we only apply this “absolute certainty” crap to the supernatural? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/33 "2012-03-09T21:25:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why is it we only apply this “absolute certainty” crap to the supernatural? Nobody knows. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/34 "2012-03-09T21:25:48Z")
The problem I have with saying definitively what happens to consciousness after death is that I’m not too clear on what consciousness is before death. How can I say what I will experience when I die when there is no I to experience it? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/35 "2012-03-09T21:30:38Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > It’s factually correct to say that about **everything**. We don’t know anything for sure. But the only time people bring up the “no one knows for sure” argument is when discussing propositions that are bat shit crazy. I wonder why that is. Sure, but then the issue is what it means to “know something for sure.” My standard is generally what is testable, verifiable, and replicable. I know _with a high degree of certainty_ that gravity works predictably. My certainty is sufficiently high that I “know it for sure.” I do not know with any degree of certainty how the universe came into being. I’m pretty damn sure the mind is a construct of the brain and the “I” ceases to exist at death. I have a pretty high degree of certainty. But as it is a question neither testable, verifiable, nor replicable, I am not confident to say I know it “for sure.” However, all that is neither here nor there. Saying “nobody really knows what happens after death” might conflict with your beliefs–and your degree of personal certainty–but it is neither politically correct nor bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/36 "2012-03-09T21:33:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why is it we only apply this “absolute certainty” crap to the supernatural? I don’t think we only apply it to the supernatural. Would it be fair to say that nobody knows for sure how the universe began? Or how the Higgs field goes tachyonic? Or whether tachyons even exist? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/37 "2012-03-09T21:36:26Z")
I would say that consciousness is pretty surely formed by the brain. We can alter consciousness by altering the brain either by chemicals or damage. If we had a soul that controlled us, why would we become different people (in sometimes very specific ways) from damage to the brain? For instance, brain damage can alter memories, or make you into a liar, or reduce intelligence, or make you unable to read faces. There would be no reason, if consciousness existed outside the brain in a soul, for these things to happen. Since our consciousness can be pecked away at by minor damage. And greater damage can lose us more and more functionality, I fail to see why someone would assume that as our brain rots the consciousness would shift from horribly damaged to perfectly fine and ready for heaven. If you’re a computer, the running copy of Windows is your consciousness. If pull the plug is the copy of Windows still running? If I smash the computer is it still there? Of course we don’t know for sure what happens. But there is no reason whatsoever to assume that at death your consciousness suddenly hops out of your brain (when in life brain damage would have damaged the consciousness). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/38 "2012-03-09T21:36:30Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Why is it we only apply this “absolute certainty” crap to the supernatural? [/QUOTE] Maybe because real life isn’t a strawman? Or, IOW, we don’t. What is dark matter? What is dark energy? Are there parallel universes? What happened at the exact moment of the Big Bang? Did anything come before the Big Bang? Is there such a thing as a Higgs Boson? What’s the ultimate question to the ultimate answer (42) of life, the universe and everything? If you answered anything except ‘I don’t know’ to any of these non-supernatural questions (well, leaving aside the last one :p) you are either delusional or you should be applying for a Nobel Prize. [QUOTE=x-ray vision] It’s not an assumption. It’s a declaration based on our knowledge of how things work. The theists declaration isn’t and shouldn’t be considered seriously. [/QUOTE] Uhuh…but our knowledge is incomplete, so saying ‘I don’t know’ is accurate, while stating that you DO know, when in fact you don’t, is an assumption of knowledge. Unless you do know, of course, in which case feel free to demonstrate. Please show your work. -XT ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/39 "2012-03-09T21:41:08Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > What if you are a Buddha or demonic? What if you are [the proverbial golden child who has all the answers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14851809&postcount=19)? How would I know, if I am. How would this “golden child” know, for that matter, that his claims are indeed part of some deeper reality or afterlife. Furthermore, how could he convince any rational thinker he’s right, and it’s not just utter BS? > [@Kozmik](#): > > “Knowledge, from, parents? Understanding from, the world? _We_ have no need for those.” I detect the sarcasm, I’m just not sure what you’re poking at? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/40 "2012-03-09T21:42:35Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Maybe because real life isn’t a strawman? Or, IOW, we don’t. What is dark matter? What is dark energy? Are there parallel universes? What happened at the exact moment of the Big Bang? Did anything come before the Big Bang? Is there such a thing as a Higgs Boson? Is there any evidence to suggest that these things are worth considering, or are they just concepts that scientists pulled out of their asses to provide a feeling of comfort? Unlike Life after Death, I suspect the former, not the latter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278.md?page=3)