# "Nobody really knows what happens after death." Is that just pc BS? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278 "2012-03-09T15:39:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/61 "2012-03-09T23:41:41Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > How deep. :dubious: What does it mean to be “human”? That’s a shallow question. What does it mean to be “you”? That’s a deep question. And, damn it, one day no 1 will believe in “you” or believe in “I”. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/62 "2012-03-09T23:48:04Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > What does it mean to be “human”? That’s a shallow question. > > What does it mean to be “you”? That’s a deep question. > > And, damn it, one day no 1 will believe in “you” or believe in “I”. I don’t think you’re being as profound as you think you are. We’re animals, both of us. For some people, that’s enough. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/63 "2012-03-10T00:04:07Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I “became aware of my mortality” meaning, you know, one day I’m going to die. > > I became aware of my personality, meaning, well, “I” (supposedly) can never be “you”. Figuring out who you are, as a person, and that you’re stuck with yourself and within yourself, is more or less a matter of fact, and of course something you ponder as you grow. I guess I’m just not getting how this fits in with the OP/thread discussion (that all current evidence points to no afterlife, in whatever form, and saying “no one knows” is really a cop-out, BS, denial, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/64 "2012-03-10T00:10:46Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes, but suppose instead of killing you, somebody took a knife and jabbed it into your brain. People who have severe brain damage also have changes to their mind. Damage your brain enough, and you’ll still be alive, but you won’t be conscious or able to think or experience anything. So didn’t your mind change when your brain got damaged? I do not believe that either my mind or my brain will survive after death. I think there is ample evidence that they will not. > [@](#): > > I will admit the logical possibility that there’s some sort of non-material component to human consciousness, but if there is, what the heck is it, what’s it made of, why can’t we detect it. And before you say that we can’t detect it because it’s a soul, well, if it makes a difference then it has to interact with this crude matter in some way, and if it interacts with our bodies in some way then we should be able to detect that interaction. And if something doesn’t interact with the material world in any detectable way, how is that different than something that doesn’t exist? I believe it does interact with the material world in a detectable way, but not a quantifiable or explainable way. There are so many aspects of human behavior that can’t be quantified that I have no problem believing that there is something else besides the chemistry of the brain that makes us who we are. I believe that whatever it is, it exists entirely outside the realm of the physical world that can be tested scientifically. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/65 "2012-03-10T00:11:48Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Figuring out who you are, as a person, and that you’re stuck with yourself and within yourself, is more or less a matter of fact, and of course something you ponder as you grow. > > I guess I’m just not getting how this fits in with the OP/thread discussion (that all current evidence points to no afterlife, in whatever form, and saying “no one knows” is really a cop-out, BS, denial, etc.) It’s the difference between saying > [@](#): > > You will die and I will die. and saying > [@](#): > > “You” will die and “I” will die. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/66 "2012-03-10T01:46:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The human brain has about 100 billion neruons and 100 trillion synaptic connections. And what makes us who we are is entirely contained in thosse connections? That kind of makes us sound like little mroe than highly evolved machines. That’s rather like saying that a skyscraper is little more than an improved version of a grass hut. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/67 "2012-03-10T05:12:38Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Is this just something Atheist are supposed to say out of respect for theists? > > I’m not condoning being an “in your face” Atheist. I just find it rather dubious that whenever people DO engage in religious debate; Atheists in general don’t want to say “Once you’re dead, that’s it.” > > I see that on this board even. Why is that? Does this question really stem from a debate? Or does it really stem from the situation discussed in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=644599) thread, where the OP wants to “debate” the woman he wants to date? Because it’s in the latter situation where, for the sake of the success of this date if for no other reason, that he’d be advised to say that cliche. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/68 "2012-03-10T06:13:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s rather like saying that a skyscraper is little more than an improved version of a grass hut. I’m with you on this, but I think perhaps he was saying self awareness is a holistic result of the brain (I won’t bother getting into the idea of “souls”). It’s more than the sum of its parts. Consider computing and AI. Certainly the modern desktop computer is a far cry from the first calculator, but upping its complexity has only boosted performance, capability and speed. We’re not even sure creating true AI is possible. What will it take to bring forth the notion a machine has an “I”, like our brains. It’s an uncanny thing, and surely the most unique and unlikely thing to come about from a universe which has no motive, design, or anything that indicates such a thing as self awareness would, or should, be possible—let alone life itself—taking what we understand about physics, cosmology, chemistry, etc. today (despite the fact we are indeed here). Using Occam’s Razor, what sounds more likely: A universe comprised of unthinking energy, matter, time and space, following fundamental intrinsic, yet arbitrary forces, that produces like-wise unthinking mixtures and quantities of the original stuff as the laws of entropy unfold, until it reaches its natural end? _or_ A universe comprised of unthinking energy, matter, time and space, following fundamental intrinsic, yet arbitrary forces, that produces like-wise unthinking mixtures and quantities of the original stuff, which can also result in beings that organize themselves from this chaotic entropy, into becoming subjective entities that can wield nature to its own end, and in a sense, being an extension of the universe observing itself? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/69 "2012-03-10T18:52:12Z")
To rephrase Descartes: > [@](#): > > for whether I am alive or dead, it remains true that two and three make five, and that a square has but four sides ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/70 "2012-03-10T19:05:14Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > To rephrase Descartes: And, triangles, like people, can be obtuse. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/71 "2012-03-10T19:25:42Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yes, but that’s not really the point I was addressing. Yeah, I think that the probability that there is something that causes particles to have mass is real, whether it turns out to be the Higgs or not, while I don’t think there is consciousness after death. The POINT I was making, though is that we don’t apply “this “absolute certainty” crap” to JUST the supernatural. > -XT If you dig deep enough the absolute certainty usually isn’t there. People use “I know” quite loosely in normal conversation, and apply it just as loosely philosophically. But most people haven’t taken “Theory of Knowledge” in college. That’ll warp your perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/72 "2012-03-10T19:31:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Good point. Are there any good reasons to suspect that there is Life after Death, or does all the evidence so far point in one direction? There is plenty of (bad) evidence for it. Various reincarnation tales. Ghosts. Myths. Very much like the evidence for god, so it is not surprising that those who tend to buy this kind of evidence for a god also buy it for an afterlife. If you think about it (and excluding Eastern religions) the set of believers in god and the afterlife should be disjoint. I’m not aware of models of a Christian heaven that include souls hanging around Earth, or returning here to haunt someone or shtup Demi Moore. But I suspect lots of believers in ghosts are also good Christians, which just shows that many people can hold two contradictory beliefs with no problems. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/73 "2012-03-10T19:37:11Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I “became aware of my mortality” meaning, you know, one day I’m going to die. > > I became aware of my personality, meaning, well, “I” (supposedly) can never be “you”. There is no “I” in death. There is no “U” in death. That means absolutely nothing, but would be a great bumper sticker if sold to chumps. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/74 "2012-03-10T19:45:27Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > There is no “I” in death. > There is no “U” in death. > > That means absolutely nothing, but would be a great bumper sticker if sold to chumps. But there is an “eat” in death. Yup, you know what that means… zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/75 "2012-03-10T19:51:33Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > But there is an “eat” in death. Yup, you know what that means… zombies. Aha! Time to open up a website! ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/76 "2012-03-10T20:14:10Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Aha! Time to open up a website! Yay! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/77 "2012-03-10T20:19:01Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > There is plenty of (bad) evidence for it. Various reincarnation tales. Ghosts. Myths. Very much like the evidence for god, so it is not surprising that those who tend to buy this kind of evidence for a god also buy it for an afterlife. > > If you think about it (and excluding Eastern religions) the set of believers in god and the afterlife should be disjoint. I’m not aware of models of a Christian heaven that include souls hanging around Earth, or returning here to haunt someone or shtup Demi Moore. But I suspect lots of believers in ghosts are also good Christians, which just shows that many people can hold two contradictory beliefs with no problems. This is a conundrum I had never considered before, but I will certainly bring it up the next time the topic comes up. Most of the Christian religions have the dead either stay dead until the trumpet sounds, or go immediately to their final reward(or punishment), but I don’t know of any that officially allow the dead to loiter without purpose. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/78 "2012-03-10T20:33:04Z")
I think some more extreme Christian faiths, believe that ghosts are really just a deceit of satan, or demons or something. IOW, they believe there’s something to these sightings or hauntings, but aren’t really the ghosts of dead people, rather Demons in Disguise! Those tricksy demons. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/79 "2012-03-11T04:25:24Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > There is no “I” in death. > There is no “U” in death. > > That means absolutely nothing, but would be a great bumper sticker if sold to chumps. A better bumper sticker would be: > [@](#): > > “I” am watching “you”. Creepy. Chilling. More of a mind fuck than “Big Brother is watching you.” Beyond Orwellian. What do you suppose drivers in back of you, upon reading _that_ bumper sticker, would think? ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/80 "2012-03-11T07:01:25Z")
Well, we know what “happens to you” when you go into a dreamless sleep, or go unconscious, or go into a coma, or go under general anesthetic, and so on. We all know what life was like before we were born (nothing). All of these things correspond to, well, having our brains disabled from a conscious state in some way. All of them feel the same way. They feel like nothing. Death is no exception. Besides, we have plenty of cases of people declared dead only to be able to resuscitate them and find that they also felt “nothing.” So really, we have a pretty good idea of what death will be like. It’s just not an answer people want to accept. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278.md?page=5)