# "Nobody really knows what happens after death." Is that just pc BS? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278 "2012-03-09T15:39:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/101 "2012-03-12T13:21:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Unless you believe that in an NDE you are actually heading towards Heaven and your loved ones. God has determined that you shall meet your loved ones in the Hereafter, when suddenly…some Earthly physician _overrules_ The Will Of God and brings you back. Apparently this happens hundreds, if not thousands of times, and there is absolutely nothing He Who Has Created The Universe can do about it. > > Do religious believers ever think about this at all? It is still just a belief, if one was trully dead they could not be revived, the brain apparently was still functioning so in reality they were not dead, and the brain does strange things when a lack of oxygen happens. I had such an experience and do not feel i died. To me it was just like a dream the mind created at the time. I was resussitated,and then told to see my heart doctor. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/102 "2012-03-12T13:28:14Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Because of the nature of this board, I don’t typically post about my beliefs. But I posted my story specifically to refute the idea that an afterlife is solely a “taught” concept and that if children were raised with no knowledge of it, they would just naturally understand that this life is all there is. I was told quite specifically by my parents at a very early age that there is no afterlife. Yet at that time I knew that they were wrong, and I have continued to believe all my life. > > I would like to clarify that I am on this board because I am a skeptic about all of the things that science can determine. I do not believe in ghosts or in near-death experiences of the “bright light” type (other than to understand the scientific explanations for them). I do not believe that anyone has “gone to heaven” and come back. Of course we all have our beliefs, but beliefs are not facts, and we do choose what we believe.Ssome people even though proved wrong about some things cling to their beliefs, and I have no quarrel with that. Belief can help a person through rough times and some times they use their beliefs to harm others as terriorists do. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/103 "2012-03-12T13:31:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Unless you believe that in an NDE you are actually heading towards Heaven and your loved ones. God has determined that you shall meet your loved ones in the Hereafter, when suddenly…some Earthly physician _overrules_ The Will Of God and brings you back. Apparently this happens hundreds, if not thousands of times, and there is absolutely nothing He Who Has Created The Universe can do about it. > > Do religious believers ever think about this at all? In truth humans have stated (or decided what God said or wants, so it is really the belief in a human or humans, that people except about a God. there is no proof that God determined anything, but there is proof that humans taught and wrote what they decided was of God! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/104 "2012-03-12T13:40:13Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I understand that (the ins and outs of NDEs, lack of oxygen to the brain, and the very similar experiences between pilots pulling huge Gs, etc.), what we don’t really know, in situations like this, is according to the doctors (and their professional diagnosis) the patient was “dead”. > > Death, we are learning is a process, not so much an instant shut off switch, unless you die in an explosion or some other practically instant catastrophe. It seems likely to me that the experiences reported by those who were, for all intents and purposes, dead for minutes (3 or 4 mins up to 12 to 15), are the results of the higher functions of the brain shutting down, one by one. If my last moments are similar, sounds like a pleasant way to go, really! A sense of timeless bliss… then you’re gone. > > _OR ARE YOU? Dumm dumm Duuuumm!_ A person is called dead when it can no longer be revived, if there is no brain function they are pronounced dead,the brain no longer can function, even at the lowest function, so the fact of being really dead is at that point. If there is some life in the body it can be revived, but if not , it cannot be brought back. There was a time that people were thought to be dead when their heart stopped, and there were cases of where people were found alive and dug up( at least that is what I read years ago0, now they know more about the human body, and determine if a person is dead or alive when all functons cease, and there is no revival, and brain death is now when death is determined. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/105 "2012-03-12T14:44:00Z")
Oh, I understand the clinical definition and battery of neurological tests that must be performed for coma/brain trauma patients to determine that the brain steam is indeed non-functioning and irreversible. It’s a complicated procedure, and not all together cut and dry, despite the very clear and rigid protocols the physicians must take to be certain the brain stem is indeed a goner, all the while the patient is kept artificially alive via machines, which wouldn’t be possible had they arrived DOA with all bioactivity completely ceased (and the beginning stages of decomposition setting in). I’m not disputing that when the brain stem is irreversibly damaged/dead, you’re as good as dead. Pull the plug, and harvest the organs That said, the study of the process of coma death, etc. continues to be researched and refined, anomalies are bound to arise. ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/106 "2012-03-12T16:01:52Z")
My sister’s heart stopped. She was dead and if not for the quick actions of those nearby by that knew how to resuscitate someone she would have stayed that way, maybe. She says that she remembers being around a group of people all heading in a certain direction. She asked is this where I’m supposed to go and she was told “It’s not your time”. She was very emotional when she told us this and still gets that way today when she tells the story. She is also very clear that she was told “It’s not your time”. Now I don’t know if it was lack of oxygen that caused a very vivid dream or if she was actually on the otherside but I do know she believes. And from the sincerity and conviction in the way she tells the story I have to believe there’s something else. However, she was told it’s not her time but what if when her heart stopped she wasn’t around a bunch of off duty paramedics? Was her heart predetermined to stop so whoever decided it wasn’t her time made sure it stopped when there were people around to restart it? Does this mean everyone has a preordained destiny, certain lessons to be taught or learned before we can pass? Life is strange but death is stranger. ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/107 "2012-03-12T19:28:20Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > My sister’s heart stopped. She was dead and if not for the quick actions of those nearby by that knew how to resuscitate someone she would have stayed that way, maybe. She says that she remembers being around a group of people all heading in a certain direction. She asked is this where I’m supposed to go and she was told “It’s not your time”. She was very emotional when she told us this and still gets that way today when she tells the story. She is also very clear that she was told “It’s not your time”. > Now I don’t know if it was lack of oxygen that caused a very vivid dream or if she was actually on the otherside but I do know she believes. And from the sincerity and conviction in the way she tells the story I have to believe there’s something else. > However, she was told it’s not her time but what if when her heart stopped she wasn’t around a bunch of off duty paramedics? Was her heart predetermined to stop so whoever decided it wasn’t her time made sure it stopped when there were people around to restart it? Does this mean everyone has a preordained destiny, certain lessons to be taught or learned before we can pass? > Life is strange but death is stranger. Thing is, our brain does really strange things when it comes to our subconscious. I’ve had dreams before that felt very real and meaningful but they’re ultimately just abstractions generated by my brain. Hearing “it’s not your time” in a near-unconscious state approaching death is no more compelling to me than hearing it in a dream. ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/108 "2012-03-12T20:10:52Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > Thing is, our brain does really strange things when it comes to our subconscious. > > I’ve had dreams before that felt very real and meaningful but they’re ultimately just abstractions generated by my brain. Hearing “it’s not your time” in a near-unconscious state approaching death is no more compelling to me than hearing it in a dream. Yes, that is the logical answer. But I believe in reincarnation so just in case I’ll continue to live my life like there will be someone there telling me to try again or that I’m done. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/109 "2012-03-12T21:17:34Z")
After finally knocking out one of the damn papers that’s been hanging over my head, I reckon I should come back to this thread (sorry). Where are we at on the whole “pc BS” thing? It looks like we can all agree that while “nobody really knows” might be bullshit, I haven’t seen any real argument that supports its being “politically correct.” Fair? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/110 "2012-03-12T22:06:05Z")
Bullshit and politically correct are not mutually exclusive. One is an assumption based against the evidence. The latter is a matter of context, and whether or not the person saying it is equivocating or being disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/111 "2012-03-12T23:17:46Z")
Once you are dead that’s it as far as we know. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/112 "2012-03-12T23:43:34Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Where are we at on the whole “pc BS” thing? It looks like we can all agree that while “nobody really knows” might be bullshit, I haven’t seen any real argument that supports its being “politically correct.” Fair? Does “avoiding pointing out the whole idea is nonsense to avoid offending the religious” count as “PC”? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/113 "2012-03-13T00:10:45Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Why would you say this? I say that - “We all know what life is like while we are alive (nothing).” because some people say this – “We all know what life was like before we were born (nothing).” > [@cmyk](#): > > Do you not feel or experience anything? Do you not feel some sapient, self-aware “I”, the essence of a “you-ness”? 😕 When meeting you and talking with you, it is you and I. You and I. **cymk** and **Kozmik**. Understand? There is a difference between > [@](#): > > you and I and > [@](#): > > “you” and “I”. Understand? I think you do understand because you brought up the concept of “you-ness”. Then there is the concept of “I-ness.” These two concepts, together, are “you” and “I”. In a word, perspective. Imagine an angry teenage girl saying > [@](#): > > I hate you. and then imagine a seething young man saying > [@](#): > > I hate “you”. Do you understand the difference between what the angry teenage girl is saying and what the seething young man is saying? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/114 "2012-03-13T00:12:34Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Do you understand the difference between what the angry teenage girl is saying and what the seething young man is saying? Not once I come back down, no. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/115 "2012-03-13T00:50:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not once I come back down, no. Well there’s yer problem right there . . . ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/116 "2012-03-13T01:24:50Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Where are we at on the whole “pc BS” thing? It looks like we can all agree that while “nobody really knows” might be bullshit, I haven’t seen any real argument that supports its being “politically correct.” Fair? I’d say neither. The question of the OP was whether some atheists genuinely don’t rule out an afterlife, or whether they are just humoring theists (or being polite or whatever). That’s the kind of “bullshit” that (s)he meant; whether it’s their honest position, not whether the position is a reasonable one. And the answer is clearly no – some atheists genuinely don’t rule out an afterlife. I’m one of them, for the reasons I gave. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/117 "2012-03-13T12:20:43Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > My sister’s heart stopped. She was dead and if not for the quick actions of those nearby by that knew how to resuscitate someone she would have stayed that way, maybe. She says that she remembers being around a group of people all heading in a certain direction. She asked is this where I’m supposed to go and she was told “It’s not your time”. She was very emotional when she told us this and still gets that way today when she tells the story. She is also very clear that she was told “It’s not your time”. > Now I don’t know if it was lack of oxygen that caused a very vivid dream or if she was actually on the otherside but I do know she believes. And from the sincerity and conviction in the way she tells the story I have to believe there’s something else. > However, she was told it’s not her time but what if when her heart stopped she wasn’t around a bunch of off duty paramedics? Was her heart predetermined to stop so whoever decided it wasn’t her time made sure it stopped when there were people around to restart it? Does this mean everyone has a preordained destiny, certain lessons to be taught or learned before we can pass? > Life is strange but death is stranger. My heart stopped once when I was having a test and I had to be resussitated, I didn’t know it until when I came to, they told me to see my heart doctor right away, because of having my heart stop. I wasn’t dead or apparently near death! Years ago I had an experience where I could see a bright light and heard people talking while I was under anesthetics, I thought I had died, but the doctor told me I was not near death, I must have just heard the nurses and himself talking,they were not takling about me but someone else. I just wasn’t under deep enough. So as a result I do not believe in NDE’s as being unusual, just things we hear and apply it to our selves. The human brain is still not fully understood. I wonder if a person doesn’t believe in an after life, but wishes there was, if that makes a difference in how their brain works under anesthetics. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/118 "2012-03-13T17:22:03Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > We know from firsthand experience what life was like pre-birth. Nothing. Really? I don’t think I can remember anything from before I was 3 or so. Do I know from firsthand experience that life before age 3 was “nothing”? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/119 "2012-03-13T17:33:52Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Really? I don’t think I can remember anything from before I was 3 or so. Do I know from firsthand experience that life before age 3 was “nothing”? If you can’t recall anything from before you were born, what makes you think you will recall anything after you die? ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278/120 "2012-03-13T18:55:09Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > If you can’t recall anything from before you were born, what makes you think you will recall anything after you die? I have no idea how that is supposed to answer my question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-really-knows-what-happens-after-death-is-that-just-pc-bs/615278.md?page=7)