# Nobody wins at Tic Tac Toe right? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 26, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880 "2015-05-26T14:13:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/1 "2015-05-26T14:13:04Z")
That’s true here as well [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrADpBMZXQg) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/2 "2015-05-26T14:27:51Z")
I seem to recall winning about half the time… can you give us a synopsis of the video for the benefit of those of us who can’t get to Youtube from work? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/3 "2015-05-26T14:31:01Z")
both guys screw up and nobody wins. But the 2nd guy had a very easy chance to win ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/4 "2015-05-26T15:28:09Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > both guys screw up and nobody wins. But the 2nd guy had a very easy chance to win Two chances, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/5 "2015-05-26T16:49:27Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I seem to recall winning about half the time… With correct play by both players, [every game would be a draw](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic-tac-toe). (Do they still call that a ‘cats’ game?) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/6 "2015-05-26T16:51:06Z")
Well, that’s no fun… ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/7 "2015-05-26T16:53:51Z")
The only winning move is not to play. I can’t believe nobody has said it yet… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/8 "2015-05-26T16:57:56Z")
How about a nice game of chess? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/9 "2015-05-26T16:59:04Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > The only winning move is not to play. > > I can’t believe nobody has said it yet… I was going to post it, but I had to finish up a nice game of chess first… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/10 "2015-05-26T16:59:50Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Well, that’s no fun… That’s why almost nobody plays it after elementary school. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/11 "2015-05-26T18:31:08Z")
Best move is to start with Paul Lynde in the center square. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/12 "2015-05-26T18:44:32Z")
Well if both players play “correctly” then the outcome should always be CAT. A long time ago someone I knew made a really elaborate cheat sheet for tic tac toe, it basically showed each possible place someone can pick according to the place you picked, and it basically showed each possible combination to set up the “win” which is where you have two places u can go to get three in a row, as well as every possible way it’s countered. It was extremely useful, and proved exactly what this thread is saying but sadly I do not have the cheat sheet physically nor virtually. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/13 "2015-05-26T18:50:32Z")
The video is some sort of halftime event at an NBA game-- Two spectators try to make baskets, and for every basket they make, they can add an X or O to the board. A winning move goes unnoticed by both players (neither blocked nor finished) for three plays in a row, ultimately resulting in a draw. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/14 "2015-05-26T19:02:00Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Well if both players play “correctly” then the outcome should always be CAT. > > A long time ago someone I knew made a really elaborate cheat sheet for tic tac toe, it basically showed each possible place someone can pick according to the place you picked, and it basically showed each possible combination to set up the “win” which is where you have two places u can go to get three in a row, as well as every possible way it’s countered. > > It was extremely useful, and proved exactly what this thread is saying but sadly I do not have the cheat sheet physically nor virtually. This one [xkcd: Tic-Tac-Toe](http://xkcd.com/832/) ? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/15 "2015-05-26T19:11:26Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Well if both players play “correctly” then the outcome should always be CAT. > > A long time ago someone I knew made a really elaborate cheat sheet for tic tac toe, it basically showed each possible place someone can pick according to the place you picked, and it basically showed each possible combination to set up the “win” which is where you have two places u can go to get three in a row, as well as every possible way it’s countered. > > It was extremely useful, and proved exactly what this thread is saying but sadly I do not have the cheat sheet physically nor virtually. Here you go: [xkcd: Tic-Tac-Toe](http://xkcd.com/832/) ETA: Darn you, **Andy L**! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/16 "2015-05-26T20:00:21Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Here you go: [xkcd: Tic-Tac-Toe](http://xkcd.com/832/) > > ETA: Darn you, **Andy L**! Gotta be _fast_ around this joint. 🙂 Of course, I’ve got you both beat, sort of: the cheat sheet Munroe gives is also at my link in post #5. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/17 "2015-05-26T20:03:15Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Gotta be _fast_ around this joint. 🙂 > > Of course, I’ve got you both beat, sort of: the cheat sheet Munroe gives is also at my link in post #5. 😃 D’oh! ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/18 "2015-05-26T21:08:27Z")
they were distracted by the blonde cheerleader with big fake knockers ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/19 "2015-05-27T06:25:10Z")
The game’s a forced draw with best play by both sides. As second player you draw easily if you pick the right first move and a simple rule of thumb is that you take the centre cell if the first player didn’t, or a corner cell if he did. If the first player chose a _side_ cell then you also draw by taking an adjacent corner or the opposite side. I saw the other day a picture of the Test Card that BBC used to show in the early days of colour TV, where the centrepiece was a little girl playing noughts and crosses against a stuffed clown. The game as shown featured a wrong move by whoever had just played second, as there was a X in the “north” cell and an O in the “west” cell. Whoever moves next has an easy win, for instance by playing to the centre cell - you can work out for yourself how the game must then finish. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880/20 "2015-05-27T17:47:21Z")
[quote=“Bijou\_Drains, post:1, topic:720880”] That’s true here as well [/QUOTE] Well, that was painful to watch. Have either of them ever played the game before? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobody-wins-at-tic-tac-toe-right/720880.md?page=2)