# Nobody's Pitted Gen. John Kelly, that national disgrace? Allow me, then. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427 "2017-10-21T12:17:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/41 "2017-10-21T22:58:59Z")
JFTR, it seems that Kelly didn’t turn into a nasty piece of work just this past week, he’s been there awhile. [Courtesy of Michael Cohen of the Boston Globe](https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/04/25/homeland-security-john-kelly-unhinged/viy0TgjP0p54ovFHDWO8KJ/story.html) (what’s in quotes is from a speech Kelly gave in April and subsequent remarks on Face the Nation, the stuff in between is Cohen’s comments): > [@](#): > > "Make no mistake — we are a nation under attack.” > > No, we’re not. > > “We are under attack from criminals who think their greed justifies raping young girls at knifepoint, dealing poison to our youth, or killing just for fun.” > > Crime rates have been declining for decades. > > “We are under attack from people who hate us, hate our freedoms, hate our laws, hate our values, hate the way we simply live our lives.” > > Since 9/11, approximately 94 people have been killed on US soil by jihadist terrorists — a bit more than the number of Americans killed every single day in gun violence. > > “We are under attack from failed states, cyber-terrorists, vicious smugglers, and sadistic radicals.” > > Cyber-terrorists have never killed an American citizen, no failed state threatens America and more Americans are killed by lightning strikes than sadistic radicals. > > “And we are under attack every single day. The threats are relentless.” > > No, they’re not. > > On Sunday Kelly continued the onslaught. > > “We have tremendous threats, whether it’s drugs, people, potential terrorists coming up from the south,” he said > > There’s pretty much no evidence that terrorists are using the southern border as a transit point for entering America. > > He also said the thing that “keeps me literally awake at night is the threat against aviation,” even though there is literally no safer form of travel and no element of American life more solidly protected from the threat of terrorism than flying on a plane. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/42 "2017-10-21T23:20:09Z")
Given Kelly’s desire that we know what happens at every tick of the clock when one of our military is killed in action, I’d kinda like to know the following: 1. When Myeshia Johnson and family/friends went to meet the casket containing Sgt. Johnson’s body, were they in a private car, or in transportation arranged for and provided by the U.S. military? (I assume the latter, but it’s worth nailing down, IMHO, to get the context of these events correct.) 2. Kelly refers to a ‘pre-call’ that normally takes place ahead of the President calling to offer his condolences. Did such a call take place in this instance, when was the call placed and to where (IOW, to the Johnson residence, or to the same phone that the actual call was placed to, or what)? Who physically received the call (Ms. Johnson? The sergeant in the car? Someone else?), was it on speaker or not at either end? What, if anything, was said concerning the allegedly private nature of the call proper, and to whom? 3. Who was in the car in addition to Ms. Johnson, Sgt. Johnson’s mother, Rep. Wilson, and the sergeant who had physical possession of the phone? Anyone? A driver? 4. When Trump called, did the sergeant physically handle the phone throughout? 5. Did the sergeant put the phone on speaker without being asked, or was this requested by Ms. Johnson? 6. Did the sergeant offer to give the phone to Ms. Johnson so she could talk with Trump without the phone being on speaker? 7. Were any admonitions given to Ms. Johnson or her companions at the time of this call that this phone call was for her ears only? 8. At the other end of the call, who was in the room with Trump during the call? 9. Was the call on speaker at that end? Or was anyone on an extension at that end? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/43 "2017-10-21T23:25:23Z")
The latest defense of Kelly’s account of the 2015 incident is that his account of Rep. Wilson’s words was accurate, just that her remarks were off camera. But wouldn’t that mean that she was making these remarks before, after, or away from the dedication ceremony? And since the whole point was that she used the ceremony as a means of self-promotion in an extremely inappropriate context, if she was saying these things _outside that context_, it destroys the point of his remarks just as surely as if she’d never said them at all. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/44 "2017-10-21T23:29:33Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I don’t see a thread on the Niger ambush, so I’ll call attention here [to Dr. Maddow’s discussion.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOz96A2CQ00) Her remarks about Chad begin about 13:45 in the video. > > Chad, top U.S. ally in North Central Africa, was added to the anti-Muslim ban apparently just because they missed a deadline to submit a new sample passport. :smack: > > Chad responded by withdrawing its own troops from Niger. Whether this was direct cause of the ambush that killed Sgt. Johnson and others is unclear, but the ambush was caused by inadequate ground and air support. Trump, when asked about all this, responded with silence — he apparently knows nothing about the entire affair, not even Sgt. Johnson’s name. Complete and utter bullshit (of course, it’s Maddow so that’s just normal for her). Chad’s forces, before they were withdrawn, were 800 miles away from where this happened, and there to fight Boko Haram and not AlQueda and ISIS-affiliated militants out of Mali. Never were anywhere close to this area. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/45 "2017-10-21T23:36:16Z")
> [@](#): > > “We are under attack from failed states, **cyber-terrorists** , vicious smugglers, and sadistic radicals.” I’m sure he means the cyber-terrorists who tried to destroy our democratic process. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/46 "2017-10-21T23:50:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Complete and utter bullshit (of course, it’s Maddow so that’s just normal for her). Chad’s forces, before they were withdrawn, were 800 miles away from where this happened, and there to fight Boko Haram and not AlQueda and ISIS-affiliated militants out of Mali. Never were anywhere close to this area. [Rueters.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-niger-security-chad/chad-withdraws-troops-from-fight-against-boko-haram-in-niger-idUSKBN1CH2T0) > [@](#): > > \*\* Chad has withdrawn hundreds of troops from neighboring Niger,\*\* where they were helping local forces fight Boko Haram Islamist militants, humanitarian sources and officials said. > > The pull-out over the past two weeks could weaken a region-wide struggle against the militants who have killed tens of thousands of people, forced many more to flee and triggered a humanitarian crisis. > > There was no immediate explanation or comment from defense officials in Chad. > > But the move came a month after the vast central African country complained about an unexpected U.S. travel ban imposed on its nationals. **Chad warned at the time the order could affect its security commitments - which include its involvement in the U.S.-backed fight against Boko Haram.** [Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/chad-passport-paper-trump-travel-ban-2017-10) > [@](#): > > This is the story of how an office supply glitch became a major irritant between the United States and one of its close security partners. > > When President Donald Trump added the African nation of Chad last month to his most recent installment of travel restrictions, everyone from the Pentagon to Chad’s leaders to the French government was perplexed. The U.S. has praised Chad’s cooperation on counterterrorism, especially its campaign against a vicious Boko Haram insurgency spilling over from Nigeria. > > **As it turns out, a seemingly pedestrian issue was largely to blame: Chad had run out of passport paper.** Got a cite for the 800 mile claim? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/47 "2017-10-22T00:10:19Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Got a cite for the 800 mile claim? Chad troops were in [Diffa](https://www.cfr.org/blog/chad-removes-hundreds-soldiers-nigerien-region-affected-boko-haram). US troops killed - [120 miles north of Niamey](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/10/04/u-s-troops-take-hostile-fire-in-niger/?utm_term=.c47d821e34c8). Look at the map. I guess I was wrong. It is more like 900 to 1000 miles. Maddow, as usual, is full of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/48 "2017-10-22T00:46:31Z")
Maddow is not full of crap, which was demonstrated to you above. She explained why Chad was included in the ban, and why their troops were pulled out. Note the caution that we don’t know (and don’t know means… don’t know) if there is any connection between the troop withdrawal and the ambush. That said, troop withdrawals do not happen in only one spot, and certainly one could expect a rolling effect across a region when 100s of troops are moved. (My comment, not hers.) Do go on bashing Rachel Maddow, however. She only won 2 Emmy’s last year for her work in news. I’m sure that’s a fluke. Your expertise is what again? Oh yeah, Internet troll. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/49 "2017-10-22T00:48:53Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Complete and utter bullshit (of course, it’s Maddow so that’s just normal for her). Chad’s forces, before they were withdrawn, were 800 miles away from where this happened, and there to fight Boko Haram and not AlQueda and ISIS-affiliated militants out of Mali. Never were anywhere close to this area. What she said may be bullshit, but my impression is that troops in Africa often have access to “boots,” “trucks,” and sometimes even “planes,” all of which allow them to move from one place to another. So that, for example, if Chad removes troops from one area of the nation, Niger may relocate its own soldiers to the vacated regions. A result of such relocation of troops may be that the area previously occupied may be more vulnerable to attacks. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/50 "2017-10-22T01:04:31Z")
We’re a little short of facts to get to the bottom of the incident Chad. I won’t be surprised to find out that it’s the result of military incompetence, even all the way to the top of the chain of command. I only expect more bullshit about it the closer we get to the top. If we begin to look at the record we’ll see an extraordinary number of unforced errors by the military, unless you consider the ineptitude of commanders-in-chief to be the force. Even in that case the number is still too high considering the reverence so many hold for the commanders in uniform. And to get back to the main topic, Kelly has been silent about the defense from Hucksterbee Sanders about his lies. Has the man any character at all? ---
**Author:** ![LongTimeLurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@LongTimeLurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LongTimeLurker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/51 "2017-10-22T01:18:16Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The hijack continues: > > Is there a gender neutral term for someone who has sold out their principles and morals for money or other material things? Trumpist? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/52 "2017-10-22T01:30:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > … > And to get back to the main topic, Kelly has been silent about the defense from Hucksterbee Sanders about his lies. Has the man any character at all? At this point, it’s entirely obvious he does not. Maybe he deserved some benefit of the doubt as a four-star general and maybe he could have helped by being one of the few adults in the administration, but this incident makes it totally clear that he has no character, no principles whatsoever. He’s just another Trump errand boy. Trump destroys the reputation of everyone he works with. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/53 "2017-10-22T01:31:07Z")
Kelly over-reacted and said things he should not have. But, he got that same call himself and my impression is that to him the politicization of such an event is in very poor taste. I won’t say fuck Kelly, but I’ll say he was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![LongTimeLurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@LongTimeLurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LongTimeLurker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/54 "2017-10-22T01:33:04Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > \ > > But Trump is President. What more can I say. This duty should be delegated to Pence. > > And John Kelly is a weak-willed piece of shit that his been bullied into being just another submissive Trump toady.\ But Trump is President. Pence is our next best hope? We are totally screwed. John Kelly, I thought he had integrity, I was wrong. I should have known better. If you aren’t man enough to take a cell phone away from a 71 year old imbecilic dough-boy then you can’t be trusted with our nations security either. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/55 "2017-10-22T01:35:54Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Kelly over-reacted and said things he should not have. But, he got that same call himself and my impression is that to him the politicization of such an event is in very poor taste. But he gritted his teeth and did it anyway. Hence, fuck him by his own supposed standards. > [@TriPolar](#): > > And to get back to the main topic, Kelly has been silent about the defense from Hucksterbee Sanders about his lies. Has the man any character at all? No. SATSQ. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/56 "2017-10-22T01:37:14Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Complete and utter bullshit (of course, it’s Maddow so that’s just normal for her). Chad’s forces, before they were withdrawn, were 800 miles away from where this happened, and there to fight Boko Haram and not AlQueda and ISIS-affiliated militants out of Mali. Never were anywhere close to this area. So, the best you can come up with is “the leak is at the other end of the boat”. Sad! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/57 "2017-10-22T01:44:46Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Is she lying for money? Or is she lying because she thinks God has told her to help destroy America? Either way, I have more respect for sexual prostitutes. Ah she’s on the right. She’s not a real woman. Call and do with her as you wish. It’s funny how the Pit reveals people’s real character. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/58 "2017-10-22T01:59:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Ah she’s on the right. She’s not a real woman. Call and do with her as you wish. It’s funny how the Pit reveals people’s real character. So I checked his history. He’s called two other people a whore as an insult–a woman and a man. My problem with the term is twofold: 1. Its misogynist analogy. It’s rooted in an old, shitty idea that men have integrity whereas women have sexual purity. When someone, male or female, sells their integrity, comparing them to women who sell their sexual purity is a gross comparison. 2. Sex workers shouldn’t be negatively compared to these shitheels in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/59 "2017-10-22T02:10:50Z")
Consider the tremendous condescension in the following remark. > [@](#): > > Before walking off the stage, Kelly told Americans who haven’t served in the military that he pities them. “We don’t look down upon those of you who haven’t served,” he said. “In fact, in a way we are a little bit sorry because you’ll have never have experienced the wonderful joy you get in your heart when you do the kinds of things our servicemen and women do—not for any other reason than that they love this country.” At a press conference he refused to take questions from any journalist unrelated to a soldier lost in combat. ```auto I should apologize for using a misogynistic word. To avoid hijacking this thread I'll put the rest of this comment in a Spoiler. [SPOILER]That wasn't "me." IIRC, I've *never* uttered that word aloud in my life. But here in BBQ Pit, I'm just an anonymous guy venting the HUGE anger I have for these people. Setting aside [an innocuous post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16594603&postcount=41) in the thread "Which language has the most swear words?" I discover that I've used the word three times at SDMB before this. One post used the word to insult a man; a second to call a Trump adviser "FauxNews whore"; the third as part of an insult against male billionaires who hire prostitutes. (By coincidence that 2nd post also Pitted Rachel Maddow!) [quote="septimus, post:3075, topic:624943"] Color me gullible, but when David Brock wrote *The Real Anita Hill* (which opened with Brock's "I began this project with an open mind"), I believed it. :smack: Brock's subsequent confession that he was instead a lying whore the whole time awakened me.... [/QUOTE] [quote="septimus, post:125, topic:771367"] [Rachel doesn't like Trump's Deputy National Security Adviser, KT McFarland](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3nRJg0T5-0), a Hillary Hater and FauxNews whore. From Wikipedia I learn that one of McFarland's contributions to national security "thought" is the need to concatenate the words "radical Islamic terrorism." Ms. Maddow's main complaint about Ms. McFarland seems to be that she has three exaggerations on her resume. I say "seems to be" because my eyes glazed over from all the repetition in the Youtube. ( **I Pit Rachel Maddow**.) I love you, Rachel, and find you informative despite this complaint, but *do you have to repeat everything 17 times?* I realize you talk fast, so repeating everything 17 times only wastes as much time as if a lesser mortal repeated it ten times. And I realize that repeating something 3 or 4 times has didactic value. *But enough is enough!* In the same segment, Ms. Maddow informs me that the N.S. Adviser himself, Michael Flynn, called Hillary Clinton a "child rapist." :eek: Et cetera, et cetera. :mad: I wonder how many intelligent Americans have to cry themselves to sleep every night since the election? [/QUOTE] [quote="septimus, post:18, topic:559478"] ... Today's GOP is driven by media like Fox and greedy billionaires; both these groups are happy to see a wrecked economy and angry citizens. (That billionaires are now able to fund campaigns secretly is a big tragedy; thank Bush's Supreme Court for that.) It may seem paradoxical that billionaires want a wrecked economy, but once you have enough dough to play with ten call girls at once, the marginal pleasure from an eleventh whore is quite small. It's all about *personal power*, and you get much more power with $9 billion in a wrecked economy than you'd have with $11 billion in a prospering economy. [/QUOTE] To be thorough, I also searched for my use of the word's plural and found seven more hits. :smack: FWIW the evidence shows I'm more likely to use the term to insult men than women. Twice was to insult Trump (or mention alleged Russian blackmail tapes); another to insult O'Reilly; one was to insult Big Oil's climate change-denying shills; another was in the phrase "bloated-amygdala corporate whores" to insult four male Supreme Court justices; another was [in a parody of Jesus historicity skeptics](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19392300&postcount=195); and the seventh was [inside a peculiar quote box](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17518660&postcount=54). [/SPOILER] ``` ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/60 "2017-10-22T02:57:13Z")
Speaking of misogynists and their apologists, what should we think of [the man described in this article](https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-donald-trumps-one-stop-parties-attendees-recall-cocaine-and-very-young-models)? SHS herself is the daughter of one of the “Christian ministers” who are ruining our once-great country. Their ilk includes [these two Christian pastors](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/23/1530069/-Two-Tennessee-pastors-included-in-32-arrests-for-human-trafficking-during-undercover-sting). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427.md?page=4)