# Nobody's Pitted Gen. John Kelly, that national disgrace? Allow me, then. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427 "2017-10-21T12:17:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/141 "2017-10-31T18:43:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I doubt he really wants a special counsel. He’s just doing like Trump; talk about crimes that were committed and the need for investigations - but then don’t actually start any investigations. > > Why? Because anyone can claim that crimes were committed. But an investigation would require actual evidence - which they know they can’t produce. They want to avoid an investigation which would just end up exonerating their opponents. Instead they just keep talking and spreading rumors without having to back it up. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > THEY know that. The base does not. And that is who the message is for: The ignorant, uninformed base, who need a distraction from the shit-show happening in the Trump administration. > > It is a cynical, dishonest bunch of complete bullshit, and Kelly is the one manufacturing it and shoveling it out to the rubes. > > He knows it’s bullshit. He knows he is fucking up the country. He doesn’t care. He’s more evil than Trump, really. Trump is the Loud Guy In The Bar who doesn’t know diddly-squat, but thinks he has the answer to everything - only with money and now the Presidency. He’s evil, but is too stupid half the time to know why what he’s saying is total bullshit. Kelly **isn’t** stupid, and has to know why this line is bullshit. But he’s going with it anyway. He’s basically what Trump would be if Trump had smarts and had his shit together as a villain. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/142 "2017-10-31T18:47:28Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I remember people running right on past that. I was accused of treason and being a terrorist sympathizer and wanting to see americans die because I questioned the judgement of going into iraq at that time. > > It wasn’t just [the administration though.](https://thinkprogress.org/boehner-weeps-for-solemn-debate-then-says-iraq-critics-are-taking-al-qaeda-s-bait-35db5a817c9e/) I don’t know, I recall people questioning invading Iraq. Just sadly not congress. I thought if anything Iran was far more likely to be involved in supporting terrorism vs the US. I thought we should have concentrated on Afghanistan and used that to send the message we needed to send. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/143 "2017-10-31T19:21:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It wasn’t any different under Dubya. Remember how Cheney forced any Republican with a reputation for integrity to support his Iraq invasion plans? I’m with **RTFirefly** on this one. I can’t think of any Republican who I think of as being “forced” to support the invasion of Iraq. Are you referring to Powell? Are you implying that there were many Republicans who were against the war but had their arms twisted into supporting it? And who were those Republicans, you think? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/144 "2017-10-31T19:27:36Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > He’s more evil than Trump, really. Trump is the Loud Guy In The Bar who doesn’t know diddly-squat, but thinks he has the answer to everything - only with money and now the Presidency. He’s evil, but is too stupid half the time to know why what he’s saying is total bullshit. > > Kelly **isn’t** stupid, and has to know why this line is bullshit. But he’s going with it anyway. He’s basically what Trump would be if Trump had smarts and had his shit together as a villain. This isn’t how I see Kelly. I knew guys like him (I think, anyway) when I was in the Navy – IMO, he’s essentially a fundamentalist American nationalist – a true believer in the GIs/apple pie/baseball type of American mythology. That Mayberry was a real and true representation of good old fashioned American traditional values, rather than a revisionist myth that whitewashed so much of the injustice of the time represented. Such beliefs are so fundamental to his core identity that, IMO, he’s no more likely to change than a 65 year old jihadist. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/145 "2017-10-31T19:31:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [Now the Nazi wanna-be wants a special counsel to go after Democrats.](http://www.politicususa.com/2017/10/31/white-house-chief-staff-calls-special-counsel-probe-democrats.html) > > He’s gone from square-jawed defender of order to full Reich-wing whackadoodle dandy. This is not good, but not unexpected. Voters voted for an authoritarian and I’d say there’s a 50/50 chance this country’s going to end up with one. I’ve been saying it: 1. There will be a war with North Korea. 2. This will give the WH the ability to impose a security state. 3. The investigations will be shut down. 4. There will be emergency legislation against sedition. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/146 "2017-10-31T19:35:02Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m with **RTFirefly** on this one. I can’t think of any Republican who I think of as being “forced” to support the invasion of Iraq. Would you be happier with “coerced” or “boxed into politically with the situation Cheney had created” or “lied into”, then? Does it really make a fucking difference to you? :rolleyes: I used a short word instead of a long phrase. It’s pretty common in this language. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/147 "2017-10-31T19:39:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Would you be happier with “coerced” or “lied into”, then? Does it really make a fucking difference to you? :rolleyes: I wouldn’t object to “lied to.” So who was coerced? And why is it that you’re shitting your pants about being called out on a stupid statement that you made? ETA: And now I see you’re continuing to edit your statement. Moving the goalposts? Trying to save face? I leave it to the reader to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/148 "2017-10-31T19:41:40Z")
You’re going beyond ridiculous now. Get back to the discussion, if you can. As for “shitting pants”, please look at who is offended by others’ use of short but descriptive words. Now maybe you and RTF can go help change each other’s diapers. Sheesh. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/149 "2017-10-31T19:49:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re going beyond ridiculous now. Get back to the discussion, if you can. > > As for “shitting pants”, please look at who is offended by others’ use of short but descriptive words. Now maybe you and RTF can go help change each other’s diapers. Sheesh. :rolleyes: Christ, you’re the lefty who talks like Trump. You make up some bullshit, get called on it, and then you go on the attack, telling people what they should be talking about. Throw a few more rolleyes in there, or take to your Twitter feed – then you will really have shown us who the boss is. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/150 "2017-10-31T19:51:30Z")
I “got called” on nothing; I took the time to explain it to you since you were having comprehension difficulties, and obviously you still are to the point where any further attempts would be futile. Now quit threadshitting as well as pantshitting, please. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/151 "2017-10-31T20:03:38Z")
You forgot to put [JuniorModHatOn] at the beginning of your post. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/152 "2017-10-31T20:48:17Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > At least you apologized in the pocket-post itself! It shows that he needs to apologise so much that he has an text expander for “I am sorry”. Probably Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/153 "2017-10-31T21:15:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > It shows that he needs to apologise so much that he has an text expander for “I am sorry”. Probably Canadian. “I am sorry” is bad Canadian grammar. The proper form is “Sorry” without any further qualification. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/154 "2017-10-31T21:17:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I “got called” on nothing; I took the time to explain it to you since you were having comprehension difficulties, and obviously you still are to the point where any further attempts would be futile. > > Now quit threadshitting as well as pantshitting, please. Having read the background, I think “physician heal thyself” is apropos. Or perhaps (with proper name subsitution) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY5nlLsU4f8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY5nlLsU4f8) That said, returning to the thread: Kelly (and for that matter, some of the other Republicans like Flake) have been getting kudos from being ‘responsible’ or for denouncing or ‘controlling’ Trump. But it doesn’t mean that they are any less conservative or ‘reactionary’ than they were before. Kelly is being Kelly, folks; he hasn’t had an Ebenezer Scrooge moment. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/155 "2018-12-08T19:30:59Z")
Updating this thread Kelly is departing before the end of the year (presumably fired): > **[John Kelly is out as White House chief of staff, Trump announces](https://www.vox.com/2018/12/8/17117790/john-kelly-fired-resigned-trump)** > > The long-awaited White House shake-up is here. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/156 "2018-12-08T20:37:28Z")
I feel worse for the seals in Hawaii that are getting eels stuck in their noses. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427/157 "2018-12-09T05:22:04Z")
I feel sorry for the eels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nobodys-pitted-gen-john-kelly-that-national-disgrace-allow-me-then/799427.md?page=7)