# Nome, Alaska taxes local churches **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 17, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865 "2014-11-17T17:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/1 "2014-11-17T17:14:44Z")
For the first time in America, a city has decided to [tax churches](http://www.adn.com/article/20141117/alaska-town-right-tax-churches). The village of Nome is failing. Revenues are down, costs are up. They can’t afford to allow free rides, much like many towns in the USA. So they’ve done the practical thing and called “enough”. I doubt that this will snowball (heh), but it certainly should, IMO. It’s the longest running scam in the country and there is no good reason for it to continue. Churches and associated buildings take up huge chunks of prime real estate. While some may pay PILOTs, the vast majority pay zilch and the rest of us have to take up the slack. If this should be in debates, feel free to move it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/2 "2014-11-17T17:46:29Z")
Damn it, it’s like they’re _trying_ to give Sarah Palin an excuse to make people pay attention to her again. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/3 "2014-11-17T17:55:36Z")
This seems like the municipal equivalent of looking for loose change under the sofa cushions. Way too little, way too late. Look for a Chapter 9 bankruptcy in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/4 "2014-11-17T18:06:15Z")
Looks like this is just a sales tax exemption. Churches will still have any existing property tax, county (borough?), and states sales tax exemptions. If so, they’re still getting a mostly free ride. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/5 "2014-11-17T18:11:43Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > This seems like the municipal equivalent of looking for loose change under the sofa cushions. Way too little, way too late. Look for a Chapter 9 bankruptcy in the near future. Exactly right. This doesn’t outrage me, it amuses me. The amount of money this measure would add to Nome’s coffers is insignificant. You want to make the First Nome Baptist Church pay sales tax on the toys they buy for local poor kids at Christmas? Go ahead. You wanna make St. Nanook’s parish pay sales tax on the coffee and doughnuts they serve after Mass? Go ahead. But please don’t imagine you’re going to have billions floating in as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/6 "2014-11-17T18:13:54Z")
Not exactly a nitpick - the council has **not** decided this, yet. And Nome has tried something like this before ([cite](http://www.leagle.com/decision/19851577707P2d870_11574)), and it didn’t work out. Keeping in mind that this proposal taxes _all_ non-profits, not just churches. Any selective enforcement is going to run afoul of the First Amendment sooner rather than later. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/7 "2014-11-17T18:34:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not exactly a nitpick - the council has **not** decided this, yet. > > And Nome has tried something like this before ([cite](http://www.leagle.com/decision/19851577707P2d870_11574)), and it didn’t work out. > > Keeping in mind that this proposal taxes _all_ non-profits, not just churches. Any selective enforcement is going to run afoul of the First Amendment sooner rather than later. > > Regards, > Shodan Still, a non-profit, pretty much by definition, is not exactly rolling in money. Sure there are a few mega-churches that abuse this designation, but I doubt you’ll find too many such institutions in Nome, AK. No, this is the city looking for loose change in the sofa cushions. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/8 "2014-11-17T18:42:20Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Still, a non-profit, pretty much by definition, is not exactly rolling in money. Sure there are a few mega-churches that abuse this designation, but I doubt you’ll find too many such institutions in Nome, AK. No, this is the city looking for loose change in the sofa cushions. You are certainly correct that this won’t raise any significant money, even if it passes (and holds up to review, which it won’t). Even one of the council members (I believe) was talking about giving the money back, maybe, if they raised enough revenue from other sources. I suspect this is more or less a trial balloon, spawned of desperation. I think there are a lot of Native Alaskan non-profits (Aleut or Inuit or whatever the correct term is). Might this be aimed at them? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/9 "2014-11-17T18:56:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are certainly correct that this won’t raise any significant money, even if it passes (and holds up to review, which it won’t). Even one of the council members (I believe) was talking about giving the money back, maybe, if they raised enough revenue from other sources. > > I suspect this is more or less a trial balloon, spawned of desperation. > > I think there are a lot of Native Alaskan non-profits (Aleut or Inuit or whatever the correct term is). Might this be aimed at them? > > Regards, > Shodan I hadn’t thought about that. I don’t know enough about those sorts of groups to know if any of them have a lot of money. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/10 "2014-11-17T19:28:34Z")
There’s no place like Nome. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/11 "2014-11-17T19:30:39Z")
Sales tax seems like a funny place to start off. Property tax seems like a better bet. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/12 "2014-11-17T19:38:10Z")
I doubt they have a lot of money, but as you point out, neither do the churches. But there are a number of non-profits in Nome that may be affected - > **[Strengthening Tribal & Community Institutions | First Nations Development...](https://www.firstnations.org/our-programs/strengthening-tribal-community-institutions/)** > > New: California Tribal Fund > As part of First Nations’ overall mission to invest in and create innovative institutions and models that strengthen asset control for American Indian people and communities, the newly launched California Tribal Fund... [KNOM Radio Mission](https://www.facebook.com/knomradio) - This is the radio station mentioned in some of the news about this story [Bering Straits Foundation](https://www.facebook.com/BeringStraitsFoundation) [http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/1031726/Kawerak-Inc](http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/1031726/Kawerak-Inc) [Nome Chamber of Commerce - GuideStar Profile](http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/92-0079541/nome-chamber-commerce.aspx) - Even their Chamber of Commerce. Like I say, I have no idea if this will fly or not, but the notion that “Nome is taxing churches” is a little incomplete, and will (if enacted) have a larger footprint than might be expected. To be fair, I have no idea if those pushing this tax know either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/13 "2014-11-17T19:40:40Z")
The odd thing to me, was that the article said the tax would raise $300,000 on non-profits in a city of 3,800. That’s $80 a person. With a sales tax of [5%](http://www.sale-tax.com/NomeAK), that’s $1600 a person going to these non-profits. That is either quite low or quite high depending on how you feel about tithing. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/14 "2014-11-17T19:42:29Z")
I believe the correct term is ‘not for profit’ and some not for profits are indeed rolling in dough. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/15 "2014-11-17T20:49:28Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Churches and associated buildings take up huge chunks of prime real estate. Alaska is desperately running out of land. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/16 "2014-11-17T21:30:01Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Alaska is desperately running out of land. I was speaking of the country in general, smart guy. And it’s not about the land, it’s about the occupants who get a free ride. Some Alaska Native Corporations (ANCs) do have a lot of money. When I worked for Arctic Slope Regional Corporation about ten years ago, it was a $6 billion enterprise, with a boatload of subsidiaries. Profits are supposed to be shared with the shareholders, who consist of every Native person who lives in the borough that is represented by the corporation. That doesn’t translate to money for the community, only for the individual, so in most of the villages and towns people are still shitting in buckets and outhouses. It is, of course, a desperation move, and likely won’t make much difference in the quality of life. But Alaska is not the only place with these sorts of problems. Here in Oregon, there are towns that have no full time police department, and counties that are emptying the jails because there is no operating money. Most cities have budgetary issues, including Portland, but they still persist in honoring a tradition that needs to die. There are at least five churches within a quarter mile of my house, one of which is a huge Catholic operation that takes up a couple of city blocks. They all use city water, sewer, electricity and streets, but don’t pay a nickel for the upkeep. Meanwhile, the city keeps hitting up every other property owner for more money. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/17 "2014-11-17T22:00:26Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I believe the correct term is ‘not for profit’ and some not for profits are indeed rolling in dough. I thought non-profit and not-for-profit were legally distinct meanings. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/18 "2014-11-17T23:15:08Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > For the first time in America, a city has decided to [tax churches](http://www.adn.com/article/20141117/alaska-town-right-tax-churches). This is only “the first time in America” for a city, but we have whole states that already “tax churches” including the [state of Washington](http://dor.wa.gov/Content/DoingBusiness/BusinessTypes/Industry/NonProfit/default.aspx). So… whoop-dee-doo, Nome. Your not-even-a-line-item-in-the-budget tax measure is only new in terms of how totally insignificant your stupid city is. Way to stick it to the man. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/19 "2014-11-18T07:01:18Z")
Quite frankly what I see as worse is when cities give tax exemptions and TIF to businesses. Their was one guy who used TIF money to renovate a historic downtown KC hotel. When the renovation was done he sold the hotel and kept all the money. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nome-alaska-taxes-local-churches/704865/20 "2014-11-18T12:51:37Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Quite frankly what I see as worse is when cities give tax exemptions and TIF to businesses. Their was one guy who used TIF money to renovate a historic downtown KC hotel. When the renovation was done he sold the hotel and kept all the money. Well, the city got the hotel renovated, and presumably producing taxes once again, didn’t it? That doesn’t seem like such a bad use of funds.