# Nominees for the Willow Rosenberg award: "nice" characters who are actually bitches **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2006, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012 "2006-12-13T20:21:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/21 "2006-12-14T00:15:16Z")
This was actually a nice twist in the movie, “My Best Friend’s Wedding”. Of course at first we sympathize with Julia Roberts as she tries to sabotage her male friend’s wedding. A standard plot from numberless romantic comedies. But eventually we start to see what an asshole move this really would be. And of course, there’s also the numberless “stalker” romantic comedies, where the male character goes to outrageous lengths to win the heart of the girl. Except if anyone did those things in real life, the woman would be calling the cops and buying a taser, not falling in love. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/22 "2006-12-14T00:17:32Z")
Claire Huxtable, Loving Mom/Uber Bitch when crossed. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/23 "2006-12-14T00:19:55Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] Clark Kent/ Superman. He just comes across as a bit of a dick, and so self absorbed (and I completely agree with Jesus-- don’t people read that thing?) [/QUOTE] I assume you’re familiar with [Superdickery.com](http://Superdickery.com), a website which features old Superman comic covers with commentary on how Superman is a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/24 "2006-12-14T00:25:03Z")
Gandalf, he’s a minor god (or equivalent to an Angel) yet he gets a unskilled midget to do all the difficult stuff. God, he invents all this great stuff like sex and then gives us ugly looking genitals and the ability to be embarrassed. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/25 "2006-12-14T00:25:34Z")
Marge Simpson. Don’t like her. Uptight meddler. Not all that different from Maude Flanders. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/26 "2006-12-14T00:27:02Z")
[QUOTE=susan\_foster] Wilson, on House. (And those with pervy minds, outta the gutter). [/QUOTE] No! It’s comfy in here! _clings to her House/Wilson ship_ I actually don’t think of Wilson as that bad (certainly not compared to the raging asshole House has been lately). He’s got his flaws, certainly–I think House is right when he says that Wilson has a pathological need to ‘fix’ vulnerable women–but deep down, he’s essentially a nice guy. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/27 "2006-12-14T00:37:18Z")
Charlotte from Sex and the City was supposed to be all nice and prissy and sweet but was in reality a selfish, judgmental bitch. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/28 "2006-12-14T00:43:39Z")
I think [Shazzang](http://youtube.com/watch?v=BnT1OyrhUQQ) just _might_ fall under this category. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/29 "2006-12-14T00:56:02Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] Now, if you wanted to claim that, oh, Kaylee Frye was actually a bitch [/QUOTE] She was though… Look at how she treated Simon. She’d tease him way out of his comfort zone and make him say something stupid. After he said something stupid, she bitch him out and leave him standing there confused. Jaynestown is a perfect example of this. Simon doesn’t want to get beat up by the captain so he reassures him that he didn’t have sex with Kaylee. Kaylee takes this as a harsh insult and tells him off before leaving with the captain. Simon, too polite to call Kaylee on her bitchiness, stays in the bar and gets beat up and cut up by Jayne’s old partner. The only thing that kept Simon from getting gutted was the fact that Jayne could honestly say Simon wasn’t part of his crew. Thanks Kaylee, you’re a sweetheart. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/30 "2006-12-14T01:03:26Z")
I think this thread should be renamed the Xander Harris Award. He was supposed to be the dorky but loveable everyman, the guy friend Buffy could count on. But he was so judgemental, of Buffy especially, with the Spike thing-- sour grapes for his unrequited crush on her. He guilt tripped her for not chasing after Riley Finn, who I hated. He left Anya at the altar. He toyed with Willow’s feelings. Not necessarily in that order, of course. I loved the show, but I think the fact that I was supposed to like Xander but hated his guts did slightly affect my level of enjoyment of this show. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/31 "2006-12-14T01:43:39Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] I think [Shazzang](http://youtube.com/watch?v=BnT1OyrhUQQ) just _might_ fall under this category. [/QUOTE] I’m not so sure about that. Because of severe “father” issues, he suffers from lack of empathy and a need to grossly overcompensate in nearly everything he does. Definitely a deeply neurotic djinn. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/32 "2006-12-14T04:01:43Z")
I haven’t watched Buffy in a good while. What are some specific instances of Willow’s bitchiness? Aside from the whole “Willow is addicted to magic as if it were heroin” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/33 "2006-12-14T04:18:02Z")
Pretty much the entire cast of _Cheers_. They were actually a very nasty group of people - anyone remember the episode with the bouncer, “Tiny”? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/34 "2006-12-14T04:22:01Z")
Yeah, of all the Buffy characters, Willow was probably one of the most likeable throughout the show (aside from the obvious latter half of season six, which is better left unmentioned). My vote? Veronica Mars. She’s supposed to be a sweetheart, but she constantly spies on people, entraps them, betrays them, turns them in, rats them out, goes behind their backs, breaks the law, gets friends to break the law for her, and that’s only in season one (which admittedly is all I’ve seen). I like the show, and I think Kristen Bell is a tremendous actress, but the Veronica character is not all sugar and spice. Far from it, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/35 "2006-12-14T04:32:15Z")
[QUOTE=mobo85] I assume you’re familiar with [Superdickery.com](http://Superdickery.com), a website which features old Superman comic covers with commentary on how Superman is a dick. [/QUOTE] I am now! This totally made my day. Who knew ‘boner’ was such a common word way back when? ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/36 "2006-12-14T05:13:49Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] My vote? Veronica Mars. She’s supposed to be a sweetheart, but she constantly spies on people, entraps them, betrays them, turns them in, rats them out, goes behind their backs, breaks the law, gets friends to break the law for her, and that’s only in season one (which admittedly is all I’ve seen). I like the show, and I think Kristen Bell is a tremendous actress, but the Veronica character is not all sugar and spice. Far from it, in fact. [/QUOTE] I disagree. Veronica is not supposed to be a sweetheart at all- she says as much when she ironically refers to herself as a “marshmallow.” Her character is intended to be (in addition to her more positive traits- digilence, wit, and competence) overconfident, paranoid, and incapable of opening up to people, due to the traumatic experiences she’s been through. It’s actually one of the big draws of the show for me, that they’re willing to have such an openly flawed protagonist. The only character in Season 1 that I’d say is actually portrayed as “nice” from start to finish is Mac. And there ain’t no way anyone is convincing me that she’s actually a bitch. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/37 "2006-12-14T05:44:58Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] Last week, or perhaps the week before that, I found myself watching the 2005 Monk holiday special. In an early, pre-murder scene, Monk and his terribly cute, very perk, clearly-meant-to-capture-the-audience’s-heart assistant, Natalie, are at a Xmas party with their friends from the police station. Natalie is doing the uncoordinate-blonde-equivalent-of-dancing when she notices that one of the supporting characters, Lieutenant Dork, is wearing a red sweater. Asked where he got it, he tells her that it was a gift from his favorite aunt, who told him that she spent weeks knitting it. Natalie UBEoDs away and finds another guest at the party wearing the exact same sweater, laughing as she points out that the Wal-Mart tag is still visible on Lieutenant Dork’s sweater. As she UBEoDs away again, still laughing, I thought, “You are really lucky you are so cute, honey, because you are an ENORMOUS bitch.” [/QUOTE] To be fair, **Skald** , Natalie is ordinarily quite sweet. Besides, as much as I like Lt. Disher, he often deserves to be taken down a peg. That’s not to say that her actions were completely innocent, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/38 "2006-12-14T06:21:11Z")
[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless] God, he invents all this great stuff like sex and then gives us ugly looking genitals… [/QUOTE] Speak for yourself! ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/39 "2006-12-14T13:50:13Z")
[QUOTE=DWMarch] She was though… Look at how she treated Simon. She’d tease him way out of his comfort zone and make him say something stupid. After he said something stupid, she bitch him out and leave him standing there confused. Jaynestown is a perfect example of this. Simon doesn’t want to get beat up by the captain so he reassures him that he didn’t have sex with Kaylee. Kaylee takes this as a harsh insult and tells him off before leaving with the captain. Simon, too polite to call Kaylee on her bitchiness, stays in the bar and gets beat up and cut up by Jayne’s old partner. The only thing that kept Simon from getting gutted was the fact that Jayne could honestly say Simon wasn’t part of his crew. Thanks Kaylee, you’re a sweetheart. [/QUOTE] I disagree. This was simply two people from different worlds interacting. In Simon’s world, comments like “Kaylee, you look nice today. Well, since you woke up, since this is space and there aren’t days to speak of.” are not only gramattically incorrect, but horribly crass. The proper way for Simon to demonstrate his feelings for Kaylee is to always treat her with the upmost respect and propriety. Conversely, Kaylee comes from a world in which not making a comment like ‘Kaylee, you look nice today.’ means that you don’t think she looks nice, saying “I would never sleep with Kaylee!” means that he would never want to sleep with Kaylee, and not dragging her into a corridor and taking her passionately means that he does not want to drag her into a corridor and take her passionately. Also consider that of the other women aboard _Serenity_, one is happily and lovingly married, and the other is a Companion. It makes sense that Kaylee would be a bit insecure about her own romantic prospects. There’s also the fact that Simon effectively feels that he can’t simply hop into bunk with Kaylee; he has River to consider. All in all, I don’t see how one can see either Simon or Kaylee as particularly bitchy in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012/40 "2006-12-14T15:29:04Z")
Example of Willowish Bitchiness- the first BIG outbreak- Oz has a lycanthropic fling with Werewolf Chick & Willow’s immediately invoking a Satanic Trinity. I’m totally a Jesus-worshipper, I buy into Him as Lord & Savior, God Incarnate, Returning King- and I totally admit He can be hardcore, and I fully expect to see Him go ballistic, including delivering a few Purgatorial bitch-slaps my direction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nominees-for-the-willow-rosenberg-award-nice-characters-who-are-actually-bitches/384012.md?page=3)