Non-Americans: How much time to do your taxes?

France : my only significant income is my salary, and it’s already filled. I have a couple deductions to add, if only I knew where I put the corresponding documents, it should take me about 2 minutes.

Work-related deductibles are of no concern for most employed people since we all have a flat 10% deduction covering this. Only people who spend more than that on work-related expenses have to bother with that.

However, I’m not sure it’s a matter of country. If I had a various sources of income, various deductibles, etc…, it would become significantly more complicated.

People who hire accountants to fill their taxes are pretty rare though. I would expect that only for wealthy or self-employed people.

Spaniard in the Netherlands. The other day I logged in to the tax ministry website and everything was all done in ~15 minutes, mostly because I was double and triple-checking everything. Very straightforward.

The tax office in the Netherlands has a slogan that translates roughly to: “we cannot make it enjoyable, but we can make it easier!”

When I was a salaried Associate in a Law Firm, their office withheld the tax when I was paid and they gave me a certificate at the end of the year; my return was filed by them. Ditto the Law School where I taught part time.

When I shifted to be paid on per case basis, again the office would issue me a certificate at the end of the year, having withheld taxes from my fees (after deducting firm’s share).

The first year after I started my practice; I tried to do it on my own and said fuck it after 3 fruitless days.

Sounds like something a serial rapist would say.:stuck_out_tongue:

For a Briton my tax return is relatively complex: my old home is rented out, I get a trivial amount of interest from the bank, and have investments. I normally combine doing my tax with my annual sort and sift of papers. Once I’ve gathered all the papers, the longest part of actually completing the form is usually waiting on the HMRC telephone line to check where one particular figure (or another) goes. The second-longest part is creating a spreadsheet of my foreign income.

Actually, I lied: the real longest part is leaving the return overnight for me to check the next day before I hit submit. :slight_smile:

It’s the same process here in SA, except my employer would already have submitted my tax certificate, directly to Revenue Services, as do my private annuity accounts. I just have to OK all of it with a click.

15 minutes sounds about right.

My situation is so simple (single, no dependents, one W-2, standard deduction, no non-retirement investments) that I can still use the 1040EZ and do it myself in about 10-15 minutes. What kind of stuff do you have where it takes you two hours just to round it all up to give to a tax preparer?

Canadian. It took me about 15 minutes on-line.

However, since I’m separated and going through a messy court battle (still) with my ex, there were additional follow-up questions that Revenue Canada had. They only deal with this stuff by snail mail, but responses can be made by fax. So, it took me another half hour or so to gather up the information and fax it to them.

Typically one can fill out taxes on-line and get an assessment within a week. If you get a refund the money will be automatically deposited in your account. If you owe money you can also just pay on-line.

I have a question though about US income taxes. I always read on the SDMB about what you plan to do with your tax refund. Do you all get tax refunds? It’s fairly common in Canada, for most tax payers, and in my experience that what you owe or get refunded at the end of the year is within maybe 50 bucks.

I am an American who has been living in Switzerland for 17 years. Despite not having any US-based income at all in all that time, I still have to file in both countries. The US is the only country in the world (and maybe Eritrea?) that makes its citizens pay tax on global income. Yay USA!

My Swiss tax preparation takes about 30 minutes.

For the US, I wouldn’t even imagine trying to do my taxes myself. There are too many potential places to trip up in there, and the fact is the IRS is out to get Americans living abroad*. I don’t want to give them that pleasure. So I use a preparer. I found a great one that “only” charges me $600 to do the 1040, FBAR, and FATCA. I say only, because I had one earlier that was charging me $1,400. It is that complicated. Using a preparer helps a great deal, but like the OP, it still takes me a couple of hours to get my documents together and provide the key data to the preparer.

By the way, I just listened to that Fresh Air podcast about taxes this morning. It was interesting, but I thought the guy they were interviewing had a really simplistic and naive idea regarding some of the alternative tax models he was proposing. I think Terry Gross was being very professional by not taking him to school on tax deductions for corporate charitable contributions.

  • And don’t get me started on how hard it is to open a bank account or get a mortgage because of the paperwork imposed on foreign financial institutions who have US clients

Canadian and I’d say it takes about 30 minutes for my wife and me to joint file. Gorsnak’s reply is basically the process we use and it takes very little time.

A better question might be to ask what % of returns are done by “professionals” vs. regular citizens.

My parents are down in the US, as citizens, and their experiences make me appreciate the CRA.

Around 80% of taxpayers get a refund, and the average amount is around $2800.

The withholding tables are responsible for part of this (it’s easier to give a refund than convince someone to write a check, and it helps motivate people to file), but for a lot of people it’s kind of like a government-run Christmas Club account. Even if they knew how to reduce their withholding to hit things right on the button, they wouldn’t want to lose their refund, even if it meant a few more dollars on their paycheck.

It’s also possible for someone to get back more money than they paid in. There are a few “tax credits” (called “refundable” credits) that are really just a way to give out welfare or subsidies. For example, if you get government-subsidized health insurance on the Obamacare exchanges, the subsidy is ultimately in the form of a tax credit that you claim on that year’s return, which can in theory completely wipe out your tax bill. They come in the form of a larger refund, but they often aren’t a refund at all, technically.

Depends. I used to be a normal employee - 1 Job, where “payroll tax” (?) was withheld by the employer, plus some interest from capital, that was below the free bracket. So I didn’t file anything. (The tax law itself EStG in Germany says that everybody is required to fill out a declaration at the end of the year. The rules for application AO say that for People with normal circumstances, exception is made to save them and the finance Office time and effort).

Then they changed the rules for People with capital Investments: if I have Investments with more than one bank, I have to declare full tax form, so they can make sure I used only partial free bracket for each bank and not the full amount (e.g. the full bracket is 800 Euros, so I can split it among 4 Banks for 200 Euros each, but it’s forbidden to use 800 Euros on each bank). I think they changed it again a few years ago, saying that using this newfangled IT Thing, Banks can Report how much bracket I used and the tax office’s Computers can tally it up.

However, some time ago I bought into a solar fund, and now I’m an entrepeneur. Technically, a silent Partner (of several hundred) but still, my income no longer falls into “employed” or “interest from capital” but “income from entrepeneurship”. So now I’m really required to fill out a tax form.

Another aspect is that the tax Offices of my City have been overburdened for years and years and… since the mid90s. When I get a letter, it says that the Person doing the work doesn’t sit in my City, he works in the tax Office 50 or 100 km away and gets a parcel of tax forms from my City on top to deal with. So the tax Office doesn’t get around to Mailing out the tax forms automatically to everybody who might be required to declare. In other cities, People have told me that they get These tax forms regularly even when they fall under the exception and no longer have to apply.

Also, my state switched to electronic declaration of taxes as mandatory several years back (very badly done - as is usual in Bavaria, with many complaints from small Business). It’s mandatory to do it online for businesses, and citizens who can’t do it online can come into the tax Office and get forms and help.

It takes me about 3 hours to look through my bank Statements to tally up my insurances, about 2-3 hours to tally up my different capital interests and deductable donations (additionally if some charity orgs. messed up and sent the wrong Statement or None at all, so I have to email them and wait… grrr. Some can do it competently, others … not). Then another 3 hours to enter it into the bloody form, which for reasons unknown changes every year. Yes, obviously the tax code is changed every year; that’s no excuse why “normal interest” is entered on line 14 this year, and line 15 next year, or why the idiots who make These forms don’t write the paragraph of the tax code next to the line so one could look up what they mean, instead leaving a lot of Terms very unclear.
Most Banks have accomodated their Clients, so when I get the yearly Statement of interest received, it says "Enter this amount on line 14 for interest received, enter this amount in line 50 for bracket applied, enter this amount on line 35 for foreign tax applied…) Which makes it easier.

There has been mention that they want to reduce the effort for the tax officers (and the citizens as side effect) by requiring the institutions to send all documentations electronically directly to the tax Office. So far, the bank/ charity/ insurance sends a Statement on paper to me, I add things up (Excel at least) copy/ scan them for proof, and send the whole Thing by mail to the tax Office. Obviously that’s oldfashioned.

As for help, there have been books that help you with your tax declaration for Ages, and CD-ROMs with different Software also for several decades. Some are adapted American programs that do your normal finances during the year, many are only taxes.

In Addition, there are Clubs called Lohnsteuerhilfevereinigung (Pay roll tax help association) where for a small yearly Membership fee you can get help, provided your only income is as employee and not-unusual capital Investments.

For everybody with complicated Investments and no interest in getting frustrated with These darn forms and badly worded language, there are tax advisors. So my mother (who rents a flat, which is “income from rented properties” in Addition to a normal Pension and small usual Investments) doesn’t bother, just collects every Statement over the year and once a year goes to the tax advisor who does the whole Thing in a few hours. (His fee can be subtracted).

Those citizens who have complicated tax, or (elderly, foreign,…) have Problems understanding the forms, but can’t afford a tax advisor: they can go to the tax Office themselves and ask for help. The tax officers are required by law (and confirmed by Courts) to advise the citizens to their best interest in how to declare things.

What they can’t do, what a tax advisor does, and where the real value for the rich People (not normal citizens) is, is give advice on how to invest Money in order to save taxes. This advice must be financially Sound enough to work, and legal enough to not get the Client into Trouble for tax Evasion (like several years back when the Tax officers raided a bank because the Bankers had given Investment advice for Luxembourg, which turned out to tax Evasion instead of legal loopholes. Since Bankers learn Banking, not tax laws, so their Information is not as reliable as tax advisors). And tax advisors who do give bad advice can be taken to court by their Clients, they are coulpable.

I don’t. The way my withholding is set up, I typically owe about $30-50.

That’s certainly the ideal. It gets harder the more of one’s income isn’t predictable salary.

I’m definitely in the camp of aiming to under-withhold and send them a couple grand with my return rather than over-withhold and get a couple grand back. Some years it works as planned; some years it doesn’t.

One could certainly tighten it down by doing partial year mock-returns and adjusting ones estimated tax payments and/or withholding accordingly. IMO that’s too much effort for too little benefit so I don’t bother unless something really extraordinary happens early in the year.

Part of the complexity of US tax returns is that there are multiple taxing authorities. If you pay enough in income taxes to the state or real estate taxes to the locality, you’ll want to figure those into the deductions as to your federal tax. And G-d help you if you lived and/or worked in more than one state.

And if you owned US Treasury bills or state/local tax-free bonds, the income from those may get treated differently at the state or federal level.

I don’t use an accountant, but I pay about $30 every year for tax software.

Planet Money recently did a great podcast (“Tax Hero”) about the California tax program that the proposed law was based on. The California legislature tried to get it passed and it failed by one vote. Why? Because Grover Norquist claimed that it would break the Republican tax pledge because having the government calculate your taxes might make it easier for the government to slip in additional taxes without people realizing. So the Republicans were not allowed to vote for it. :smack:

I liked the analogy of “doing your own taxes is like having to create your own credit card statement by adding up all of your credit card receipts for the month. And if you make a mistake you get penalized for it.”

To the OP, I guess 10-15 hours for US taxes using tax software. We have investments and itemize deductions, so it takes a while to get all that stuff put in.

I typically get a tax refund, but that’s because there can be penalties if you underpay by too much, and it’s really hard to estimate how much the next’s year’s taxes will be, so I try to make sure we always overpay.

BTW, the IRS has been trying for years to simplify tax forms. They have proposed a system where they would send you a bill (or payment) and you’d just sign off on it.

H&R Block et. al. have fought it tooth and nail.

Why should the IRS give a shit what H&R Block thinks or wants?

Yeah, I get lobbying, blah, blah, blah, but why should the government even care? What’s at stake for the government?

“The government” doesn’t care. The * congressweasels * who pass laws tend to vote the way the lobbyists lining their pockets want.

I maybe wrong but having the government do your taxes for you seems like a great way to overpay.