However, the reality is Aldebaran, the Arab world is weak. Economically, military, technologically, culturally, in nearly every conceivable way except spiritually. It needn’t have been so, but it is. If it should come to a showdown between Arabia or the Islamic world and the west, Arabia would fall (unless you believe in miracles) and we’d both (everybody) lose.
Though I agree with what you said... please take the **west** out of there. I consider myself part of the west... and Bush does not represent the "west". I would feel ashamed of it if he did.
I understand Aldebaran’s anger… and with Bush re-elected there is no reason for arabs not to feel mistreated and marginalized. I always thought of the west as morally superior to arabs and their violent ways… but I can’t say that any longer. Terrorism is not the answer to those grievances… and Bush is not the solution to them or terrorism.
No, and Bush sure as hell does not represent Europe. However if push should come to shove (as it did in the days following 9/11) I’m quite certain we would close ranks.
Contrary to what you might believe, and what Aldebaran apparently does, I do not subscribe to the theory of a clash of civilizations. More like some rear end skirmishes between modernity and fundamentalism. I’m quite sure the large majority of Arabs and people of other Moslem countries crave democracy and wealth, MTV and Big Macs, Mary Jo lingerie and trips to Crete and all the other trappings of modernity, just as much as the next guy. Perhaps Bush is not the man to deliver, but rooting for terrorism and cultural war against all things American (western) sure as hell ain’t either. Aldebaran might think he hurts the US by advocating extremism and mistrust but in reality he only harms his own country.
I also consider central and south America part of the west, and have never quite understood the groups in the US which do not.
I agree with this sentiment. I have no idea what you meant by ‘the West’ is and it is a pet peeve of mine (the west of what?), but although we are not militarily, numerically or economically on par with Brazil, at least geographically and culturally we are and you can be certain that G. Bush does not speak for us. As it is he only speaks for 51% of Americans.
To us it means more of the same for 4 years. I still have to assess what it means for me personally. I am dissapointed at America right now. As you move to the right you get farther away from the rest of us.
The only countries that should fear another US invasion are those who continue the flout the UN and pursue policies which everyone considers dangerous. Iran and North Korea being the prime targets now… they want nuclear bombs, and no one else wants them to have them. But also nobody really cares enough to do anything :(, and they secretly hope the US will take care of these problems.
It’s unfortunate that the propaganda by Bush’s opponents was distributed around the world, like Michael Moore’s “documentary”. I doubt if similar work from the right of American politics was as widespread. Is Rush Limbaugh as widely broadcast?
_
You may not referring to me, but even if you are not, I think you should give us a bit more credit for our beliefs. You may not know it but some of us are not fed with propaganda and don’t watch American reality shows. Some of us have no watched Michael Moore’s ‘documentaries’ and some of us know a bit about what America can do when no accountability is requested of their leaders.
1916 and 1965. Thank you.
Bush is attacking Israel next??? :eek:
(Yeah, yeah, I know that wasn’t what you meant, just kidding. 
)
More seriously, to answer the OP:
Personally, I’m disappointed. I would have respected Americans more if Kerry had won. (I know, a lot of you voted for him. Good for you.) Among other things, I’m worried about what this will mean for civil liberties in USA.
But if I look egoistically at this, not caring about the future of USA or Iraq, only looking at the immediate impact in Norway, this is probably better than a Kerry win.
More mess in the Middle East means higher oil prices. That’s good for Norway. (Admittedly, I didn’t have much hope that Kerry would be able to fix things, but I think the risk of even worse messes increases with Bush at the helm.)
I also think the chances of a Labour/Socialist Left governing coalition here after next election just increased. Our current Christian Democrat/Conservative/Left coalition has been doing what it could to support the US invasion of Iraq (despite the wishes of the majority of Norwegians) - a clandestine loan of military equipment just before the invasion, a symbolic mililtary contribution in Iraq after the “peace”, an offer to train Iraqi police here in Norway. It would have been easier for them to continue doing this, and increasing the contributions, under Kerry. Under Bush, the chance that these issues will come back and bite them in the butt before the next election increases.
Another possible result, especially if Bush continues his style of international - um, I guess I’ll call it “diplomacy”, for want of a better word - is that Norway may move closer to the rest of Europe, especially EU, politically. I’m opposed to Norwegian membership in EU, so to me that’s a bad thing.
Aldebaran: 5. I shall do nothing at all anymore to bring to more restrained reasoning those people who want to jump on the wagon of extremism, let alone that I shall ever again actively engage myself in the efforts countries make to locate such people and above all the organisations who recrute and train and exploit them. […] A friend of mine was murdered while observing such a group.
Yipes A., I’m sorry to hear about your friend, but that was pretty darn noble of him/her to take that risk. Please tell me more about this sort of thing (if it wouldn’t be a security problem)—are there many Muslims like you and your friend who are voluntarily participating in this kind of counterterrorism effort? (I’m presuming it’s on a volunteer basis because I assume if it were your actual job, you wouldn’t have the option of giving it up when you feel like it.)
That’s the sort of thing that we just don’t find out about from our media—efforts Muslims are making to help defuse the terrorist threat. Private citizens helping smoke out terror cells, wow. I think maybe if more of us had known more about what Muslims do against terrorism, instead of just being bombarded with images of evil-Muslim-terrorists ™ all the time, there would have been fewer votes for Bush.
Mirasawa said:
The only countries that should fear another US invasion are those who continue the flout the UN and pursue policies which everyone considers dangerous…
Hmm.
So, the US is poised to invade itself ? 
In Canada , Anti-Americanism is on the rise. Don’t get me wrong- it has always existed, to a point. But there was sympathy offered after the last election to citizens living under the rule of a president they hadn’t chosen. Now, the kinds of comments I hear are more along the lines of “Well, now they’ve really done it…” and I have a feeling that those sentiments will be echoed should another tragedy befall America, which isn’t quite fair, seeing as only about half of the country voted that way (well, of the people who actually voted). A sense of all around depression… a “what happened?” vibe…lots of politicians backtracking, eating their words of support for Kerry…
A Fundamentalist Christian and a unilateralist is by far the worse choice to have in power when you have “skirmishes between modernity and fundamentalism”. Its like telling Arabs to become modern… while the US retreats into the safety of their own traditional religious morality.
I pity the most Iran… they seemed poised to democratic reform… and now they are back to the “Death to Satan” slogan shouting.
In Alberta, Canada…
The media is reporting that some Canadian officials think that Bush would be more likely to open the border to imports of Alberta beef, than if had John Kerry been elected. Trade in this billion dollar business sector in my province has been shutdown over one case of mad cow disease a year ago. The scare has long since been eradicated, but still, as a result of the trade ban, thousands of ranchers and industry related workers are going bankrupt with each passing day. A Bush victory may mean the border will open sooner, but that remains to be seen.
The Bush administration’s stance on the softwood lumber tariffs imposed on Canadian imports has also cost this Canadian industry dearly in British Columbia.
So much for our free trade agreement. :rolleyes:
Perhaps we should start sending our coveted cheap meds and flu vaccines over to the U.S. ~ strapped to cows pulling logs.
I hope Bush doesn’t find out about Alberta’s massive oil reserves. Or it’s probably just a matter of time before armed U.S. soldiers come busting through my door looking for WMD’s, on a mission to liberate Alberta from the clutches of the evil Canadian regime, while securing the flow of oil. (For rebuilding revenue, of course.)
I detest the Bush administration’s policies, both globally, and for the adverse effect it has had on my friends and family. I can’t believe he was re-elected with his track record.
The only positive glimmer I see, is the possibility of the border being opened to Alberta beef sooner. But aside from that, I don’t see how another four years of Bush can be a good thing for Canada, or the world.
Oh, my, you really shouldn’t have posted that! I hope the re-education camp isn’t too hard on you.
It means the U.S. moves a little closer to Alberta. 
OMG! What have I done? Shhhhhhhhhh.
[sub]mod? can you delete my previous post?[/sub]
There is NO oil here. None. Really. There’s just snow. Honest.
Was it possible that Germany would have provided troops if Kerry won, or was it just a matter of who the defense minister was more comfortable saying ‘no’ to?
Brits: Please do what you can to pressure Major, or get him out of office. You don’t want an American lapdog running your country any longer, I don’t think. There’s little sense in spending British lives in an American boondoggle.
Germans and French: Don’t give in to insanity. Iraq is a deathtrap. Your “you broke it, you fix it” policy is entirely appropriate.
All those living in these and other nations beside the US: Don’t support us militarily in Iraq. What our govt. did was simply criminal, and you are not responsible for bailing us out. Help the Iraqi people any way you can without appearing to endorse American aggression, if that’s possible. Pressure Turkey to let up on the Kurds, since they want badly to get into th EU. Maybe a viable Kurdistan will help solve some of the problems of that region, as Iraq could come apart at the seams for all we know.
Please don’t let your respective governments give in to US pressure of any kind, especially in Iraq. Thwart us when you can if we show signs of moving aggressively towards other nations. We’ve got a mad cowboy running the country, so you need to be careful of assisting him in any way; he’s only using you, like he did Blair. Resist, and know some of us are trying to change the place in the mean time; that portion of us, at least, will understand.
Wow. Yesterday, you’re all, “Oh, we need international help in Iraq! Bush’s big mistake was not seeking out your help! We want to be multilateral!”
Today you’re all, “Hey world! Don’t help! Let Iraq go to hell!”
You really don’t care how many people you have to take down to ‘get’ Bush, do you?
Major’s been gone for a while. Blair will easily win the next election, on the strength of his majority and the weakness of the opposition.
I haven’t heard much from the Japanese media yet, although so far the general public’s been pretty strongly opposed to both Bush and the war in Iraq. PM Koizumi’s no doubt very happy about the results, as he’s been hoping the US will back Japan’s bid for a permanent UNSC seat if he does enough sucking up. Plus, he sure hasn’t been going out of his way to make friends with the neighbors, so I guess Bush is all he has.
Personally, I don’t expect to see any anti-American backlash that can’t be defused with a simple disappointed shrug. Oh well, after next year I’ll be able to tell people I’m Japanese.