# Non-Americans : What is your reaction to the US gun control debate ? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448 "2013-01-26T17:53:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/41 "2013-01-26T23:49:53Z")
Yes, I agree **Martini** , it really does seem to be a social problem at the root of it all. Not that other countries don’t have social problems, but the issues in the US seem to be pretty significant. I’m not sure how they’re going to figure it out considering the large and divided population. ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/42 "2013-01-27T00:02:47Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > Yes, I agree **Martini** , it really does seem to be a social problem at the root of it all. Not that other countries don’t have social problems, but the issues in the US seem to be pretty significant. I’m not sure how they’re going to figure it out considering the large and divided population. This American agrees. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/43 "2013-01-27T00:07:53Z")
> [@gms453](#): > > Wow, I had forgotten just how preachy, pompous and pretentious Europeans can be. For the record, I’m Canadian. > [@](#): > > ‘Those who would surrender their freedom for security will lose both and deserve neither.’ Now who is being preachy. I have freedom and security. I don’t have to live in a gated community with a loaded pistol under my pillow. That isn’t freedom and that isn’t real security and you deserve better. > [@](#): > > How many ‘Bible thumpers’ are there in the USA? How many of them “defend guns”? Do you know the answers to either of those two questions? A hell of a lot ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/44 "2013-01-27T00:25:41Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Maybe you should understand that you shouldn’t get all your information about a national culture from TV shows. Those programs are popular because they portray exaggerated stereotypes that do not represent reality. The whole reason people watch them is because they are so bizarre. People don’t want reality shows that are really about the reality of people’s lives. That would be boring. And viewers can feel superior to the morons on those shows. This doesn’t explain Fox News, however. Or perhaps you believe they’re just ratings whores and don’t actually believe the views they espouse? (Actually, even if you think that, there must be SOME reason why they think that their views would appeal to lots of people.) Nor does it explain this… > [@gms453](#): > > So what are you saying? That everyone you deem to be of “Red America” is going to be put up against a wall and shot? Or are you just going to torture them until they confess the error of their ways and promise to do, say and think whatever you and your big brother government order them to? What’s with the hysteria? You do understand that saying stuff like this does not make you appear to be a rational human being? American, btw, and I think we’re going backward too. We used to be the “Leader of the Free World.” Now we have the Patriot Act and the only healthcare reform we could pass is 1\> not even close to true UHC, and 2\> almost toothless and particularly burdensome on the poor, which sort of defeats the purpose. Also going backward: Roe v. Wade was 40 years ago, and now we’ve got legislators trying to [charge rape victims with a felony if they have an abortion](http://rt.com/usa/news/new-rape-evidence-bill-770/). (She’s backpedaling now… apparently it came as a surprise that most people would be outraged by this.) Not to mention the whole “legitimate rape” fiasco prior to the election. How is that NOT going backwards? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/45 "2013-01-27T00:27:09Z")
:smack:Gms453 was indeed who I meant:smack: Apologies to all! ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/46 "2013-01-27T00:35:39Z")
There’s a lot more difference between US gun laws and other countries than allowing military style assault rifles. Try to get _any_ semi-automatic rifle in Australia, assault style or no, or a pistol in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![gms453](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@gms453](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gms453)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/47 "2013-01-27T00:40:40Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Um, this thread was supposed to be for those living outside American culture to reflect on their views, I thought. How did it turn into Emanj defends American culture? We get it, it’s a different view from inside. We all have heard the song you’re singing, we know all the words even. > > We aren’t condemning American culture just sharing our observations, as the OP requested, sheesh! Um, no it wasn’t. See the OP’s stated purpose in post #15 above. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/48 "2013-01-27T00:50:27Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > This doesn’t explain Fox News, however. Or perhaps you believe they’re just ratings whores and don’t actually believe the views they espouse? (Actually, even if you think that, there must be SOME reason why they think that their views would appeal to lots of people.) Oh, there’s Americans who agree with Fox News and the like. But there’s also a huge audience for Rachel Maddow and Jon Stewart skewering them. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/49 "2013-01-27T00:58:00Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > I hope you are right about the coming to an end part, and wrong about the ‘ugly’ part. Just let guys like me keep our guns. The only people talking about taking away all guns are right wing nutters on Fox to scare the base, but I expect more OK city type bombings in the next few years. ---
**Author:** ![gms453](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@gms453](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gms453)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/50 "2013-01-27T00:59:44Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > For the record, I’m Canadian. > Now who is being preachy. I have freedom and security. I don’t have to live in a gated community with a loaded pistol under my pillow. That isn’t freedom and that isn’t real security and you deserve better. > > A hell of a lot How disappointing: being a Canadian, you really ought to know better. What can I say? I simply cannot resist responding to a quote with a quote. Your belief that most Americans live–on think they need to live–in gated communities with pistols under their pillows is laughable. Just as I suspected, when it comes to religion in America, you have no idea what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![RedMud636](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@RedMud636](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedMud636)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/51 "2013-01-27T01:13:32Z")
America seems to have a nice combo of poor mental health care, a society raised on violent images and stories, a ridiculous criminal justice system, and lots of guns available with little to no scrutiny. What you reap is what you sow. Good luck. Your neighbour in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/52 "2013-01-27T01:33:34Z")
You just named a bunch of things that don’t really address the violence problem in the US at all. The pockets of urban poverty that lead to gang life and/or organized crime have a lot more to do with our issues. ---
**Author:** ![gms453](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@gms453](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gms453)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/53 "2013-01-27T01:34:47Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > What’s with the hysteria? You do understand that saying stuff like this does not make you appear to be a rational human being? What’s with the intellectual dishonesty? You do understand you quoted me out of context and by doing so you appear to be someone who needs to grow up and recognize that high school debating techniques are generally ineffective in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/54 "2013-01-27T01:48:07Z")
:dubious: I quoted your entire post. Who’s being intellectually dishonest? (And quite frankly, if your other post didn’t do it, this post certainly has convinced me you’re hysterical and irrational. I don’t think those words mean what you think they mean.) ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/55 "2013-01-27T01:51:32Z")
My reaction is that there’s a lot of dishonesty: 1. Guns make you safer/legislation is unlikely to be effective? Seriously? A weapon may only be a tool, but guns are very effective tools for killing people. If for some reason I wanted to stop screws from being screwed into screw holes, the first thing I would do is to ban screwdrivers. Sure it would not completely stop screws getting in to those screw holes, but it would surely have a significant impact on the number of screws being screwed. 2. Does a piece of legislation enacted in 1791 (i.e. the 2nd amendment) really have overarching importance today? The times were very different. Also I don’t get the obsession with what the Founding Fathers intended, it seems quasi-religious- they’re long gone, surely the needs and wants of present day Americans are more important. Americans (to make a gross generalization) like guns, it’s that simple. They enjoy them and they make them feel safer whether or not they actually make them safer. They also not massively keen on being told what to do. There’s actually nothing wrong with this, but I just wish they’d be honest with themselves about it and about the cost to society of having almost unfettered gun ownership. ---
**Author:** ![gms453](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@gms453](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gms453)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/56 "2013-01-27T03:02:59Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > :dubious: I quoted your entire post. Who’s being intellectually dishonest? > > (And quite frankly, if your other post didn’t do it, this post certainly has convinced me you’re hysterical and irrational. I don’t think those words mean what you think they mean.) Like I said, you are. I didn’t say you misquoted me, I said you quoted me out of context, which you did. I have no interest in trying to convince intellectually dishonest posters–such as yourself–of anything, and I think it’s funny that you would presume that I did. Well, I know what adults who are being intellectually honest mean when they use those words, and the manner in which you have (mis)used them tell me that either you are not an adult or are an intellectually dishonest one. ---
**Author:** ![gms453](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@gms453](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gms453)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/57 "2013-01-27T03:07:07Z")
> [@RedMud636](#): > > America seems to have a nice combo of poor mental health care, a society raised on violent images and stories, a ridiculous criminal justice system, and lots of guns available with little to no scrutiny. What you reap is what you sow. Good luck. Your neighbour in Canada. Congratulations. You’ve crammed more ignorance into fewer words than I would have heretofore thought possible. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/58 "2013-01-27T03:07:21Z")
Throwing around baseless and absurd accusations – the ones I quoted, or those directed at me – does not lend credibility to your arguments. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/59 "2013-01-27T03:23:29Z")
**gms** is the type of American we’re referring to, in part. Unwilling to take criticism to the point of vehemently defending themselves regardless of the validity of the criticism and then resorting to name calling. ---
**Author:** ![gms453](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@gms453](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gms453)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448/60 "2013-01-27T04:07:16Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Throwing around baseless and absurd accusations – the ones I quoted, or those directed at me – does not lend credibility to your arguments. But I’ve not made any arguments, I’ve simply pointed out the deficiencies in yours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-americans-what-is-your-reaction-to-the-us-gun-control-debate/648448.md?page=4)