# Non-Apology Apologies and why they don't help a goddamn thing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 13, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187 "2005-04-13T20:55:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/21 "2005-04-14T00:48:20Z")
I think the whole point is that it isn’t a real apology. You say it like that when you don’t think you did anything wrong, and the other person misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![Feydeau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df788c/32.png) [@Feydeau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feydeau)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/22 "2005-04-14T00:54:42Z")
> [@MinniePurl](#): > > You know, if he had just said “I’m sorry _that_ my meaning wasn’t clear” as opposed to “I’m sorry\* if \* my meaning wasn’t clear”, it would have made all the difference in the world. Please, _please_ tell me you aren’t serious. I fail to see the point of this entire pitting. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/23 "2005-04-14T01:08:55Z")
> [@MinniePurl](#): > > However, I am not one of those morons, and I don’t appreciate being lumped in with them. If I take some advice and it happens to cause me some harm, it’s not the other poster’s fault for offering it, it’s mine for taking it. Therefore, I carefully consider the advice I am given and only do those things that I think have little or no potential for harm. So far, the worst thing that has ever happened to me from following advice on a message board was ending up with 5 quarts of inedible chili. Give us some fucking credit for having half a brain, okay? I have nothing in particular to say about CK’s behavior or attitude, as I couldn’t be bothered to wade through the threads in question, but I did want to address this. Maybe you are NOT a moron, but it’s a bit much to expect the mods to know who, out of thousands of people on these boards, are morons and who are not. Besides, you’re not the only person reading your threads. The policies are geared toward the lowest common denominator so as to cover their asses. Welcome to the modern world. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/24 "2005-04-14T01:33:26Z")
> [@MinniePurl](#): > > . Good God, do I really have to spell it out in this much detail? Actually, you should be a little clearer. Are you saying CK wasn’t nasty enough to you since you thought his apology wasn’t sincere? Myself, my supper was a bit overcooked and I expect an apology from CK. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/25 "2005-04-14T15:59:13Z")
> [@Feydeau](#): > > Please, _please_ tell me you aren’t serious. > > I fail to see the point of this entire pitting. “I’m sorry that my meaning wasn’t clear” = I acknowledge my meaning wasn’t clear, and apologize. “I’m sorry if my meaning wasn’t clear” = My meaning was clear. If you somehow didn’t manage to find my meaning clear, then sorry you weren’t capable of reading my meaning. Even though my meaning was clear. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/26 "2005-04-14T16:42:59Z")
Well, **MinniePurl** , would you have preferred an apology like **Dex** made almost exactly [five years ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=10638). (Note that because of board upgrades, the order of some posts and some names may have been scrambled.) ---
**Author:** ![MinniePurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MinniePurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinniePurl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/27 "2005-04-14T16:59:28Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > “I’m sorry that my meaning wasn’t clear” > > = I acknowledge my meaning wasn’t clear, and apologize. > > “I’m sorry if my meaning wasn’t clear” > > = My meaning was clear. If you somehow didn’t manage to find my meaning clear, then sorry you weren’t capable of reading my meaning. Even though my meaning was clear. Yes, exactly. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/28 "2005-04-14T17:21:42Z")
I think you’re lucky he apologized to you at all–I know I wouldn’t have. CK expressed an opinion that seeking medical advice on a message board is asinine. You perceive an insult where, frankly, it was a stretch to find one. He offers a nice apology along with clarification, and you get all in a snit about it. If anything _you_ owe _him_ an apology. Toughen up that skin a bit. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/29 "2005-04-14T18:25:57Z")
> [@MinniePurl](#): > > Non-Apology Apologies and why they don’t help a goddamn thing [totally sincere expression I bought at the Goodwill] I’m sorry you feel that way. [/totally sincere expression I bought at the Goodwill] ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/30 "2005-04-14T18:34:33Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > I think you’re lucky he apologized to you at all–I know I wouldn’t have. That seems to be the key here. I doubt this thread would exist if **Dex** hadn’t tried to apologize. What if he had said, “I understand that you’re offended by my conduct, but I still say I did nothing wrong.”? Not really an apology either, but perfectly acceptable according to Mr. Dobrian. ---
**Author:** ![MinniePurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MinniePurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinniePurl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/31 "2005-04-14T18:47:33Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > That seems to be the key here. I doubt this thread would exist if **Dex** hadn’t tried to apologize. > > What if he had said, “I understand that you’re offended by my conduct, but I still say I did nothing wrong.”? Not really an apology either, but perfectly acceptable according to Mr. Dobrian. It’s not meant to be an apology. And it would have been fine, actually. It would have indicated to me that he truly intended no insult. When someone gives a non-apology apology (hint: probably includes the word “if”, or “you perceive” or “you misunderstood”) it means they did intend the insult, but they aren’t going to admit it. They think it was perfectly okay to insult you and resent that you called them on it. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/32 "2005-04-14T18:50:25Z")
Maybe, but her whiney overreaction, to wit: > [@](#): > > I’ll know better than to ever ask a question again-- all it gets you is a big ol’ bucket of condescending smug poured all over you. was uncalled for. A lot (most?) people don’t know about Mr. Dobrian’s assertion that a poorly–in his opinion–worded apology is considered offensive by some. ---
**Author:** ![MinniePurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MinniePurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinniePurl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/33 "2005-04-14T19:22:15Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > I think you’re lucky he apologized to you at all–I know I wouldn’t have. > > CK expressed an opinion that seeking medical advice on a message board is asinine. You perceive an insult where, frankly, it was a stretch to find one. He offers a nice apology along with clarification, and you get all in a snit about it. If anything _you_ owe _him_ an apology. > > Toughen up that skin a bit. Okay, let’s go through this one more time: Non-Apology Apology= NOT AN APOLOGY Non-Apology Apology= “I won’t admit any wrongdoing, but I think you are stupid enough that if I make it sound like I’m apologizing, you’ll think I actually am.” Non-Apology Apology=Thinkly veiled expression of contempt to the person you are “apologizing” to. “I understand you are upset, but I won’t apologize because I didn’t do anything wrong.”=“I’m being respectful of you, but I didn’t intend to insult you, and I’m truly baffled as to why you and these other people think that I did.” And I really don’t see why I should have to “Toughen up” in this particular case. It wasn’t another member responding to me in the Pit. It wasn’t a board offical responding to me being difficult and hostile. It was me, a paying member, asking a question in a polite manner, in the proper forum, and getting a scornful, insulting reply. When are the mods and admins going to learn to treat us like paying members? ---
**Author:** ![MinniePurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MinniePurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinniePurl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/34 "2005-04-14T19:23:36Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Maybe, but her whiney overreaction, to wit:was uncalled for. > > A lot (most?) people don’t know about Mr. Dobrian’s assertion that a poorly–in his opinion–worded apology is considered offensive by some. So, what you are saying is that most people don’t really understand English? Sadly, that’s probably true. I don’t see any reason we should encourage that in this board, however. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/35 "2005-04-14T19:25:24Z")
> [@MinniePurl](#): > > Non-Apology Apology=Thinkly veiled expression of contempt to the person you are “apologizing” to. At this point, an awful lot of people are rooting for him to remove the veil. Just FYI. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/36 "2005-04-14T19:25:43Z")
If you honestly think his initial reply was scornful and insulting, you need to toughen your skin up more than just a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/37 "2005-04-14T19:37:29Z")
> [@MinniePurl](#): > > When someone gives a non-apology apology (hint: probably includes the word “if”, or “you perceive” or “you misunderstood”) it means they did intend the insult, but they aren’t going to admit it. No, it means they _might have_ intended the insult. The example in your link obviously did mean to imply the insult but that is not always the case. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/38 "2005-04-14T19:40:15Z")
> [@MinniePurl](#): > > Okay, let’s go through this one more time: > > Non-Apology Apology= NOT AN APOLOGY > > Non-Apology Apology= “I won’t admit any wrongdoing, but I think you are stupid enough that if I make it sound like I’m apologizing, you’ll think I actually am.” > > Non-Apology Apology=Thinkly veiled expression of contempt to the person you are “apologizing” to. > > “I understand you are upset, but I won’t apologize because I didn’t do anything wrong.”=“I’m being respectful of you, but I didn’t intend to insult you, and I’m truly baffled as to why you and these other people think that I did.” You’re psychotic. > [@](#): > > And I really don’t see why I should have to “Toughen up” in this particular case. It wasn’t another member responding to me in the Pit. It wasn’t a board offical responding to me being difficult and hostile. It was me, a paying member, asking a question in a polite manner, in the proper forum, and getting a scornful, insulting reply. When are the mods and admins going to learn to treat us like paying members? **CK Dexter Haven** ’s original post to you in that thread was neither scornful nor insulting, you blithering, whiney, half-witted, miserable excuse for a functional human being. There. _That_ was scornful and insulting. Now go back and re-read what **Dex** originally said to you, and then take a look at what I just wrote. Compare, contrast, and fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![MinniePurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MinniePurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinniePurl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/39 "2005-04-14T19:40:52Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > At this point, an awful lot of people are rooting for him to remove the veil. Just FYI. So, you, as a board offical, are saying that the contempt **was** intended? For asking a polite question? ---
**Author:** ![MinniePurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MinniePurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinniePurl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187/40 "2005-04-14T19:43:26Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > No, it means they _might have_ intended the insult. The example in your link obviously did mean to imply the insult but that is not always the case. What, they \*DON’T KNOW \* if they intended the insult or not? Please. If they intended the insult, then they should have the balls to say so. If they didn’t, they didn’t do anything wrong and they should say so. “Might have” is just being weaselly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-apology-apologies-and-why-they-dont-help-a-goddamn-thing/299187.md?page=3)