# Non-believers: Ever wish you \*did\* believe? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 12, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283 "2017-12-12T15:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/81 "2017-12-14T12:38:43Z")
I think I can appreciate most of the possible benefits without having to actually believe in a sky fairy or involve myself in the nasty sides. I can meditate. I love Christmas and singing together in a carol service. “Born that man no more may die la la la” - it’s a beautiful story if you tell it that way. I can understand Walt Whitman’s poetry and see the poetic truth in it without the god he mentions having to be real in any physical sense. It’s poetically real and that is enough by far. It’s real in the way any story is real. LotR is a real story, it is valuable. I don’t need it to be _more_ real to get all the value I need. I’d like to see my dog in heaven. That’d be nice. Her running towards me through the clouds… I bet she could eat chocolate in heaven, too. But it doesn’t make me wish I believed. Doing psychedelics only made me see more beauty and unity in the world, and the necessity of fitting in a god seemed even more silly. What need is there, when everything is so beautifully flawed, so intricately malfunctioning yet still continuing? Everything is so ridiculous - a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing - but in a beautiful way. A god would ruin everything! Phew, I’m glad I can appreciate it like that, the beauty is far deeper and more overwhelming than the simplicity of some god. I have it all, I say 😃 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/82 "2017-12-14T13:46:25Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > Sometimes I hope that the Christian idea of Hell is correct and that some people (mostly politicians lately) will suffer forever for their sins, but I know it’s not true and these people will never be punished, either during life or after. This is the least attractive part of Christian theology to me. The idea that an omnipotent being would choose to inflict an eternity of torment on a human soul for a finite error (and we are finite in this life, so any wrongdoing we can possibly commit is finite) seems horrific. I note that most religions, and even some branches of Christianity, don’t include infinite punishment among their doctrines. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/83 "2017-12-14T14:26:40Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Not really, in Canada. We don’t talk about religion. In fact it would be rather impolite to bring it up unless there was a contextual reason for it. Fellow Canadian here. Moved to the US a number of years ago. Your experience is similar to mine. Canada is a far more evolved society in that respect. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/84 "2017-12-14T14:30:27Z")
I used to wish desparately that I believed in something. I really struggled with the lack of answers and fear of the unknown. I have made peace with it in the last few years. I no longer feel something is missing. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/85 "2017-12-14T14:54:31Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Sure. Wouldn’t it be nice to have eternal happiness, hookers, drugs, booze and wealth beyond imagination after I die? (what I believe “Heaven” would be) > > But it would be incredibly stupid to believe any of that happening. Sounds like you want Pastafarianism. Heaven includes beer and strippers. Hell does too, but the beer is flat and the strippers have STDS. I don’t long for any particular religion but I find it rather sad that we spend a lifetime learning and then it all gets wasted in the end. It’d be nice for there to be a higher, worthier purpose to our tawdry existence. That said, “nice to have” does not in any way translate to “must exist”. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/86 "2017-12-14T15:15:08Z")
No. Not for a second. The world is a much more wonderous place without superstition and magic horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/87 "2017-12-14T15:37:57Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > You don’t think eternity would get boring eventually? I’d prefer to find out the hard way; at least I’ve already figured out how to cope with boredom. > [@](#): > > The unanswered questions of the reality of an afterlife of which there would be aplenty, I would think cause more anxiety, especially if it is the same gods man has imagined here in this world, would be the same assholes running the next life too. You might think so, but it doesn’t. Not with me, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/88 "2017-12-14T15:48:40Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > This is the least attractive part of Christian theology to me. The idea that an omnipotent being would choose to inflict an eternity of torment on a human soul for a finite error (and we are finite in this life, so any wrongdoing we can possibly commit is finite) seems horrific. I note that most religions, and even some branches of Christianity, don’t include infinite punishment among their doctrines. Why certain religious folk torment themselves and add to their grief with this additional nonsense of eternal hell-fire, only they and their god knows. Conservatives seem to like this one though, and feel many have it coming, in particular non-believers, which, is one of the gravest sins of all not to believe in this particular deity, that for some reason, just has to be believed in despite the lack of evidence. However, you can rape, pillage, commit genocide, and if you believe in the end, all forgiven if you belong to the club and pay your memberships on time. God doesn’t lie, it’s in his bestseller book. So much of religion revolves around hope and fear. Just need a good story teller with some rascality in him that can fleece their flock and exploit these two emotions for all they are worth. Doesn’t seem to be a shortage of fleecers and the fleeced. Once one realizes that whether one is right or wrong about certain concepts about gods or the afterlife, it doesn’t alter the outcome one iota in the end by which side you were on. If one can accept this, the rest becomes easier as well. At least it has worked for me and I found peace many decades ago. I could still be wrong, but truly no God worth that title gives a damn if you believed in him or not. A Fiend might. So conservative theology aside, but when was the last time they got anything right? While I’m thinking about it, when was the first time? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/89 "2017-12-14T20:37:39Z")
I can see the appeal of that sense of comfort. But then someone in my family posts something on FB about how she feels maybe she is being punished for divorcing her abusive ex, because she has lost so many people in the decade+ since. This is a woman in her 50s. She’s not a child ( as i was when my mother died) or a young woman in her 20s ( when my dad died) . She is at an age when parents and grandparents may falter and pass. Yes it hurts, but her faith isn’t even comforting her! It’s making her feel worse! ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/90 "2017-12-14T20:47:54Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > […] Doing psychedelics only made me see more beauty and unity in the world, and the necessity of fitting in a god seemed even more silly. What need is there, when everything is so beautifully flawed, so intricately malfunctioning yet still continuing? Everything is so ridiculous - a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing - but in a beautiful way. A god would ruin everything! Phew, I’m glad I can appreciate it like that, the beauty is far deeper and more overwhelming than the simplicity of some god. I have it all, I say 😃 Nicely put, with or without the psychedelics and Shakespeare. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/91 "2017-12-15T13:13:29Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > Nicely put, with or without the psychedelics and Shakespeare. 🙂 Haha, just as there is no need for a god, there is also no need for psychedelics and/or Shakespeare. All can surely be appreciated without. But those two, I personally would recommend 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/92 "2017-12-15T16:08:18Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > I have never tried any type of illicit substance, but I gotta admit that I find ayahuasca a tad intriguing. It has been legal for ever in many South American countries, and for a decade in Brazil now (while pot is illegal there). The linked thread offers a lot of info. > [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > I feel the need to offer Maastricht an apology after reading her post once again (this time for comprehension). Unnecessary, but appreciated 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/93 "2017-12-15T20:37:01Z")
I’d like for life after death and above all for some sense of justice and meaning in the world, but I don’t believe and am not wired for any sense of faith. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/94 "2017-12-19T04:43:34Z")
Agnostic, never attended a church service. Usually I’m like… > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > No. Not for a second. The world is a much more wonderous place without superstition and magic horseshit. …but at other times, there’s this stupid part of me that believes (from one of those testament books, or something. King James Bible?) in the rapture, or the second coming, which I believe will come in the form of a rogue black hole that will swallow us up. If in the event it’s some other cataclysm that leaves the planet at least a bit more intact than a black hole obliteration (yet still resulting in a very few survivors), there’s one other homily that I wouldn’t rule out - “the meek shall inherit the earth”. Maybe none of that qualifies as “faith”, or “believing”. Anyway, other than that - yeah my faith is as about as strong as a wet paper towel. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Urquhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/db5fbb/32.png) [@Gordon\_Urquhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Urquhart)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/95 "2017-12-19T05:07:16Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > Sometimes I hope that the Christian idea of Hell is correct and that some people (mostly politicians lately) will suffer forever for their sins, but I know it’s not true and these people will never be punished, either during life or after. I’m with Gus here – as surely as I don’t believe in heaven as a reward for believers, I don’t believe in hell as a punishment for nonbelievers. There are many times, and more often as of late, that I wish that there was a heaven so that there could be a hell for all of the hypocrites here on earth who deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/96 "2017-12-19T07:28:14Z")
For many people, the idea of community is really powerful. However, as someone who grew up as an outsider from the group in a tight-knit religion, that doesn’t necessarily work for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/97 "2017-12-19T07:34:56Z")
No. I wish I could buy all the stuff about UFO’s though. That would make the world a much more interesting place. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/98 "2017-12-19T08:05:57Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > If in the event it’s some other cataclysm that leaves the planet at least a bit more intact than a black hole obliteration (yet still resulting in a very few survivors), there’s one other homily that I wouldn’t rule out - “the meek shall inherit the earth”. I’ve since had a conflicting thought about that idea, (ha - very late “edit window”:o), in that if we _are_ left with the scenario where there’s only a few survivors remaining after a major global disaster, then instead of “the meek will inherit the earth”, it would be “survival of the fittest”, perhaps? Then again, what if it was a relatively level playing field, with all the sorry riff-raff limping and crawling around with de-gloved limbs and whatnot? I guess, for that, the meek paradigm could work. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/99 "2017-12-19T08:08:45Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > On a different front, I love Christmastime, and especially a lot of Christmas hymns. I heard a particularly stirring rendition of “Hark, The Herald Angels Sing,” the other day that sent chills up my spine, and I found myself wishing that I could believe in the literal message behind it. But I just don’t. I know the feeling although I’ve always been an atheist. I’m not a militant one though because at the most diminutive micro-level peace of mind is essential and it is the illusion of absolute peace of mind that occasionally makes me think being a believer could make it easier to pursue one’s happiness but then I quickly realize it may very well be nothing but just that - an illusion. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283/100 "2017-12-19T12:42:30Z")
No, never believed, never felt the need, never seen any evidence for it. The actual people I interact with, the things I experience and the wonders of the natural world are all that I need to give my life meaning. In fact the highly likely scenario that these few years are all we’ll ever experience just hammers home the necessity of how wonderful and precious is our finite life. When it’s gone, it’s gone. That isn’t bleak, it’s glorious. I understand why some people want to cling to the thought of an afterlife. How that basic desire ensures the human construction of religion, but it continues to amaze me how convoluted the reasoning is to maintain those beliefs in the face of zero evidence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-believers-ever-wish-you-did-believe/804283.md?page=6)