# Non-Christian Dopers: Would you feel any trepidation about 666 or a mark on your head or hand? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384 "2020-04-22T22:15:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/41 "2020-04-23T19:04:02Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > What would a mark/tattoo/encoded number in a chip with the number 666 on everyone accomplish? That’s foolish and has no informational value at all if everyone gets one. > > And as should be noted, the number 666 is simply the sum of the numeric values of “Caesar Nero” in Hebrew spelling, and that’s really mundane if you think about it. Revelation is a fevered/drugged/psychotic dream about the state of the world at the turn of the first to the second century AD, heavily cribbed from Daniel and other apocalyptic books of the Old Testament, so I can’t see how this drivel should have any influence today. I don’t think it’s Hebrew, I think it’s Greek. Greek letters have numerical values too. The author of Revelation wrote in Greek, and I’m pretty sure was Greek, and would doubtfully have known Hebrew. > [@Velocity](#): > > This sounds like a mighty dicey approach to take. It would be quite the gamble for someone to say “Well, I’ll take the mark, but not worship”…considering the magnitude of what’s at stake. I might seem to be contradicting myself a little, but it sound like, even if the author of Revelation didn’t know Hebrew, he was at least familiar with the Septuagint. In Deuteronomy, we are instructed to bind the words of G-d as a sign upon our hand, and wear them between our eyes. (And also write them on the doorposts of our houses.) Anyway, if you have written the name of someone other than the deity in the place where you are supposed to keep the words of the deity, you have supplanted G-d, in a way, so you could certainly be accused of worshiping the beast in a manner. So I don’t think it’s an accident that the forehead and hand are mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/42 "2020-04-23T19:14:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Now, the vast majority of people worldwide do not ascribe to this belief - either because they are not Christian, or, although being Christian, do not believe in a futurist/literal interpretation of Revelation. But, I was curious to ask around: For non-Christian Dopers, suppose there were some day some bar code or digital chip, or the number 666, or tattoo/mark that became universally required of everyone in order to buy or sell - would you feel any trepidation about having such a mark put on your body? (Not necessarily for theological reasons, but also for civil-rights, political, Big Brother/Orwellian concerns or any other such reservations) I would object to having such a permanent mark tattooed on me anywhere on my body because I don’t want to be tattooed anywhere. You might as well ask if you slice gashes into my hand or forehead to cause deliberate heavy scarring. The answer is no. I do not want such alternations of my body. I don’t care what the specific design is, I do not consent. As for implanting a chip - we do that for material possessions and chattel, like pets or cattle. I am neither and don’t desire to be either. Again, I do not consent. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/43 "2020-04-23T19:22:22Z")
1. I do not want anyone making permanent marks on my body, period. 2. I was born with enough uniquely identifying information on my body, and I don’t want to add more. 3. I have no religious beliefs, so I would object specifically to any religious symbol such as 666. 4. I object to wearing any generic number or mark that could be used for discriminatory purposes. 5. I don’t want the government requiring any sort of body modification as a condition of transacting business. We can have a national ID card or whatever, in fact I think that would be a good idea, but please do not put stuff on my body. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/44 "2020-04-23T19:46:27Z")
If someone was making people get a 666 mark, I’d have to assume it _was_ for some whackaloon Revelations-related reason. Some weird strain of fundamentalist Christian or maltheist or Satanist or _something_. As for barcodes in general, it’s the forced tattoo part that bothers me, not the barcode part. Semi-relevant aside: there’s a Jewish day school nearby with a 666 address, and I used to joke that they must have gotten the property cheap because the Christians weren’t buying. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/45 "2020-04-23T19:50:38Z")
Jared Kushner owns the building at 666 5th Ave. in New York City, sometimes called ‘Spook Central’. I’ve heard that he bears the mark of the devil somewhere on his body. Others say that’s just an imprint left from kissing his father-in-law’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/46 "2020-04-23T19:53:25Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I don’t think it’s Hebrew, I think it’s Greek. Greek letters have numerical values too. > > The author of Revelation wrote in Greek, and I’m pretty sure was Greek, and would doubtfully have known Hebrew. That would make sense. But I saw a documentary about Revelation just the other day, and the numerology leading to the number 666 from emperor Nero was explicitly referred to as gematria. The person demonstrating it on the program using Hebrew letters was a Rabbi. It was also noted that the composition and language used in the Greek text of Revelation indicated that the author probably was a native Hebrew and/or Aramaic speaker. I can’t vouch for the accuracy of that documentary, but that’s where I got it from. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/47 "2020-04-23T19:55:31Z")
Back in the 1980s I remember getting a leaflet either handed to me, or left on a NYC subway platform bench, detailing how “The Mark of the Beast” was actually a microchip with unique IDs encoded into them that would soon be invented that The Government, actually controlled by Satan, would have surgically implanted into people. And furthermore, it wouldn’t be done in a concentration camp serial number type of thing. THEY would develop all sorts of technology based on this unique ID that would make having one of these implants practically a necessity for everyday life, ranging from payment (buying and selling stuff or getting paid yourself into some computerized electronic fund somewhere), identification for travel (replacing physical passports), and so on. People would be getting these things voluntarily! But everyone who did so, would be DAMNED! Flash forward 30 years and I would assume the apocalyptic conspiracy train of thought would extend to these things being implants that had all the functions of a smartphone directly powered by your body. Get email and messages, and stream music and videos, right to your brain! And all I can say is: SIGN ME UP!!! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/48 "2020-04-23T19:57:14Z")
I was once playing 7 card stud in a casino. Everyone folded except for me and one other guy. He had a pair of sixes up. I had that beat but I wasn’t showing. He draws a third six up and folds immediately. I don’t know how religious he was. He certainly had no problem smoking, drinking and gambling. I was happy to take his money. 666 is meaningless to me. I don’t want 666, a barcode or the word “Mom” in a heart tattooed on me. I can’t see ever wanting anything implanted in me. It has nothing to do with religion. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/49 "2020-04-23T20:22:18Z")
It would freak me out if any sort of discernible marking appeared on my body unexpectedly. Probably a “666” would be freakier than most. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/50 "2020-04-23T20:39:19Z")
For a long time Post Office Telephones here did not allocate 666 in the London area codes sequence. (Eventually they did allocate it to Croydon, as they were running out of numbers) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/51 "2020-04-23T21:41:48Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > That would make sense. But I saw a documentary about Revelation just the other day, and the numerology leading to the number 666 from emperor Nero was explicitly referred to as gematria. The person demonstrating it on the program using Hebrew letters was a Rabbi. I did the math, and in Gematria, “Nero Caesar” is in fact 666 if spelled “נרון קסר”, which is not the standard spelling today - although it could have been in the past. נ = 50 ר = 200 ו = 6 ן = 50 ק = 100 ס = 60 ר = 200 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/52 "2020-04-23T21:47:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > At the risk of derailing my own thread, **there’s nothing wrong, in Christianity, with 666 outside the context of Revelation.** Whether it’s the address you live at, or your phone number, or assigned classroom in school, or whatever, in such contexts it’s merely the number that comes in between 665 and 667. I attended a Christian college, and happened to be assigned the vehicle registration sticker of 666 for my car for parking on campus; didn’t bother me. > > Nowhere in the Bible does it say that 666 is bad in any other context. There was a highway 666 in AZ and NM. They had to change the number, partially because of theft, but also because religious people were freaked out. It got a bit of lore as the devil’s highway and people thought there were an unusual amount of accidents there. The highway was in fact poorly built for the amount of traffic, but I suspect there was confirmation bias too. > **[U.S. Route 491](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_491#U.S._Route_666)** > > U.S. Route 491 (US 491) is a north–south U.S. Highway serving the Four Corners region of the United States. It was created in 2003 as a renumbering of U.S. Route 666 (US 666). With the US 666 designation, the road was nicknamed the "Devil's Highway" because of the significance of the number 666 to many Christian denominations as the Number of the Beast. This Satanic connotation, combined with a high fatality rate along the New Mexico portion, convinced some people the highway was cursed. The p Th... Also, what\*\* Ulf the Unwashed\*\* said. We all pretty much need an ID and at least a debit card in real life. While not literally a mark on your body, I think it’s close enough. [Here’s some Iron Maiden](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3di_JI2wXg) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/53 "2020-04-24T02:44:23Z")
My '71 BMW has a broken odometer. I can set the trip odo to ‘666’ manually. Prevented a few people from asking to drive it. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/54 "2020-04-24T05:05:28Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > Hmmm. No numbers on my hand; just a series of letters: “DCLXVI”. > > Is that ok? It just means you’re the Anti-Caesar. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/55 "2020-04-24T06:03:46Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I have a 999. That was an early model Ford. Henry Ford drove a version called the Arrow to the land speed record. Henry Ford was thus The Beast, inverted. Satan does a backflip, right? > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The number doesn’t bother me. Everything else about the scenario does. I may be slightly amused by ancient myths based on older myths but they’re weak on observable reality and thus frighten me less than bad math. Believers are scary, tho. Apocalypse was written in Greek where [666](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/666_(number)) is ΧΞϚ´(say that backwards three times). This lacks the numerical elegance of the Arabic decimal rendition, not yet invented. Why didn’t Jehovah tell anybody about decimals and zero? Lazy sod… Anyway, in Latin it’s DCLXVI, a letter salad that doesn’t trip off my tongue. YMMV. In hexadecimal it’s 29A, sure to strike fear in the hearts of all faithful nerds. Did they boycott HP-29A calculators, or merely exorcise them? Holy water would ruin the chips. Sad. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > There was a highway 666 in AZ and NM. They had to change the number, partially because of theft, but also because religious people were freaked out. Religious nutjobs weren’t numbering highways back in the day. The re-designation to [491](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_491) (753 in octal, 1EB hexadecimal) occurred in 2003 CE (3723 octal, 7D3 hexadecimal) under devilish Dubya to distract from Gulf War II (10 in binary). It runs through the Pinto Bean Capital Of The World, a land of demonic flatulence, for sure. The string “666” occurs in several of my accounts and as yet, nothing bad has hap… J9D\*&Kdao;(Uo[i8[ LOST CARRIER. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/56 "2020-04-24T07:43:43Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > My '71 BMW has a broken odometer. I can set the trip odo to ‘666’ manually. > > Prevented a few people from asking to drive it. Setting it to 665 could be even more effective to stop other people driving it. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/57 "2020-04-24T08:31:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I did the math, and in Gematria, “Nero Caesar” is in fact 666 if spelled “נרון קסר”, which is not the standard spelling today - although it could have been in the past. > > נ = 50 > ר = 200 > ו = 6 > ן = 50 > ק = 100 > ס = 60 > ר = 200 There probably wasn’t a “standard” spelling in the year 100CE, approx. when Revelation was written. In fact, this is probably why there is dispute over whether the number is actually 666 or 616. Alessan, I hope you don’t mind kibbutzing, but I thought I’d note for the dopers who don’t know Hebrew, that you have used “Neron Caesar,” and the letter which represents the “N” sound appears twice, which is why the value 50 is there twice. The letter, “nun,” has a special form at the end of a word, and that’s why it looks different the second time. BTW: what is the standard spelling for Nero? ?נירון קיסר? נירון כיסר? נרון קאסר I don’t know why I don’t know this. This is usually the sort of thing I know. I can’t usually spell words like אבטיח correctly, but I can always spell סנהדרין. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/58 "2020-04-24T08:34:51Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > American, secular humanist, lifelong atheist here. > > The number 666, zero trepidation. If I got a new license plate number or a new bank account or credit card or something, and it happened to have the number “6” three times in a row somewhere in it, I’d just laugh and crack a joke about it. > > Being required to have some kind of mark on my body, or having to have a microchip implanted in me, _would_ bother me, not for theological reasons but for civil liberties / privacy / general human dignity and autonomy reasons. > > Now, I’m assuming this is just something like, for reasons of “national security” we all are now legally required to carry a photo identification with us at all times; or, persons who have already had the virus and/or been vaccinated are given a Certificate of Immunity they have to carry around with them when they go out in public for some period. The first scenario I would object to on civil liberties grounds; the second scenario might be a pretty reasonable thing to do under the circumstances (the details would definitely matter). But either way, I still wouldn’t be thinking anything along the lines of “Wow, I was wrong! This is all coming to pass exactly as it was foretold in the Book of Revelation in the Holy Bible! There _is_ a God, and I’d better accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior!” > > Of course one thing that always bothers me is the way non-Christians are portrayed as totally clueless in certain Evangelical pop literature. I mean, if thousands and thousands of born-again Christians mysteriously vanish, and then some mysterious charismatic person is elected President of the World (and is also head of the New Global Religion), and the new World President decrees all good World Citizens must have a QR code tattooed on their right hand and on their forehead–at some point, it becomes a “Duh!” moment. lol, those dumb as hell “left behind” books that were popular years ago and now fill the shelved of thrift stores across America? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/59 "2020-04-24T09:52:13Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > There probably wasn’t a “standard” spelling in the year 100CE, approx. when Revelation was written. In fact, this is probably why there is dispute over whether the number is actually 666 or 616. > > Alessan, I hope you don’t mind kibbutzing, but I thought I’d note for the dopers who don’t know Hebrew, that you have used “Neron Caesar,” and the letter which represents the “N” sound appears twice, which is why the value 50 is there twice. The letter, “nun,” has a special form at the end of a word, and that’s why it looks different the second time. > > BTW: what is the standard spelling for Nero? ?נירון קיסר? נירון כיסר? נרון קאסר I don’t know why I don’t know this. This is usually the sort of thing I know. I can’t usually spell words like אבטיח correctly, but I can always spell סנהדרין. Nero is spelled [נירון קיסר](https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9F_%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%A8) in Hebrew. I don’t know why it’s always “Neron” and not “Nero”, but it is. As for קיסר (Caesar, pronounced "Kay-SAR), it’s now a regular Hebrew noun, meaning “emperor”. It’s the word used to refer to, say, Emperor Naruhito of Japan or to Sheev Palpatine. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384/60 "2020-04-24T10:47:07Z")
It’s “Neron,” because that’s what it is in Greek, which is a declined language. I don’t know Greek, so I’m not sure which case “Neron” is (probably genitive or dative), and I couldn’t begin to tell you which declension-- I’m not even sure how many Greek has-- but that’s what’s up with the ending. I know biblical Hebrew, but my Modern Israeli Hebrew is crap. The last time I was in Israel, I think I spoke Russian in shops more than I spoke Hebrew. I must sound funny to people, putting together scraps of biblical Hebrew to get a message across, when someone does not speak English (rare in itself). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-dopers-would-you-feel-any-trepidation-about-666-or-a-mark-on-your-head-or-hand/852384.md?page=4)