# Non-Christian, non-Jewish, religious choral songs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 13, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954 "2004-10-13T03:43:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954/1 "2004-10-13T03:43:44Z")
In my high school choir, like most, we do a lot of Christian music, especially for our annual Winter concert. I’d like to argue that us atheists shouldn’t have to sing this stuff, or listen to it, at a public school. But the truth is that people like hearing Christmas songs, and if we really didn’t do _any_ songs that mentioned God, there’d be _much_ less music for us to choose from. Besides, we also do a lot of Hannukah songs, and quite a few songs that have nothing to do with any religion (especially for our concerts which happen later in the year), which kind of balances it out, I suppose. So I’m not that bothered by it. And I’m not trying to start a debate. If you do want to debate the issue of religious songs in public schools, please post a link here to the (probably GD) thread. Anyway, I am curious if there are any songs out there (that would be feasible for a high school choir) from other religions, that I could try to convince our choral director to consider. Do Muslims have any traditional songs they sing on certain holidays? Buddhists? Satanists? Strange religions I’ve never heard of? Does anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954/2 "2004-10-13T10:27:30Z")
There are a few exceptions, but the problem is that other religious music is, by and large, either monophonous or chromatic. Christian choral music was derived from Jewish choral music, and ever more complex harmonies were added in conjunction with the development of musical notation — a development spearheaded by Christian monasteries. It was difficult enough to pass down simple melodies from generation to generation, but passing down harmonies was especially difficult. (Consider the famous gossip game; melody is subject to the same sort of morphing.) Once they had a satisfactory musical notation, they began to develop the beautiful harmonies you hear today, because now they could write them down and pass them on. You _can_ find Muslim choral music of a sort, such as that sung by the Mandailing, but I’m not sure you’d be satisfied with it, and it is rather incomplete without its drums and dance. The only Indian “choral” music I’m aware of is from the northwest coast, but again, I don’t think it’s really what you’re looking for. It is polyphonous, but would likely sound “weird” to you. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954/3 "2004-10-13T21:41:56Z")
How about Western music settings of the texts of other religions? There must be some. My knowledge of this is admittedly very limited. The only ones I know of are by Gustav Holst, the composer of _The Planets_. He wrote _Hymns from the Rig Veda_ and _Hymn to Dionysius_. However, those particular works may be beyond the capability of a high school ensemble. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954/4 "2004-10-13T21:59:09Z")
Most neopagan Winter Solstice or Yule songs are simply Christian songs with the lyrics uncomfortably mangled and contorted into PC drivel. Or they’re droning chants of two lines which are sung off-key by drunken revelers, usually in a minor key - which is somewhat diminished by the end. (Oops, did I say that out loud?) The one thing I truly, madly, deeply miss about Christianity is the beautiful music. ☹ Are you a good choir? Really good? Try some madrigal stuff. While often Christian in origin, hardly anyone in your audience will be able to tell. The main words in madrigals are “La” and “Laaaa”, but there are some really fun interweaving melodies\* happening, and it sounds like holiday music without mentioning JC. \*watsit called when there’s two or more distinct melodies and not a melody and a harmony? Is that just polyphony? I thought it had a sexier name, but I forget… [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Israfel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/87869e/32.png) [@Israfel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Israfel)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954/5 "2004-10-13T22:18:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Are you a good choir? Really good? Try some madrigal stuff. While often Christian in origin, hardly anyone in your audience will be able to tell. The main words in madrigals are “La” and “Laaaa”, but there are some really fun interweaving melodies\* happening, and it sounds like holiday music without mentioning JC. Minor nitpick- but the music which uses “Fa La La La La’s” is called balletto rather than madrigal. > [@](#): > > \*watsit called when there’s two or more distinct melodies and not a melody and a harmony? Is that just polyphony? I thought it had a sexier name, but I forget… [/hijack] Counterpoint or polyphony depending on context. ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954/6 "2004-10-13T22:25:38Z")
**todd33rpm** just wondered out loud if you were thinking of “antiphony” (and he’s not sure if he’s got it right…). ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954/7 "2004-10-13T22:49:36Z")
> [@Israfel](#): > > Counterpoint or polyphony depending on context. Counterpoint _is_ polyphony. ‘Polyphony’ just means multiple threads sounding at once. It includes counterpoint, but also includes other tonal and non-tonal systems. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954/8 "2004-10-13T23:01:57Z")
> [@Israfel](#): > > Minor nitpick- but the music which uses “Fa La La La La’s” is called balletto rather than madrigal. Well, bad on my choir director! Thanks for fighting my ignorance. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Israfel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/87869e/32.png) [@Israfel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Israfel)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954/9 "2004-10-13T23:03:08Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Counterpoint _is_ polyphony. ‘Polyphony’ just means multiple threads sounding at once. It includes counterpoint, but also includes other tonal and non-tonal systems. Yeah I know. The only reason I separate the two is because counterpoint tends to imply some sort of systemized approach to polyphony. That is, in my experience polyphony is “usually” used to describe pre-baroque music, and counterpoint is used to describe music from the baroque on. But this may have just been a quirk of where I studied. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-christian-non-jewish-religious-choral-songs/268954/10 "2004-10-13T23:49:10Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Counterpoint _is_ polyphony. ‘Polyphony’ just means multiple threads sounding at once. It includes counterpoint, but also includes other tonal and non-tonal systems. And modal systems. Don’t forget modal systems. Back in the Renaissance, when most madrigals were written, tonality hadn’t been invented yet.