Non-citizens could vote in US elections?

[suranyi]

@mhendo

Because the law requires a wait of a certain number of years between gaining permanent residency and gaining citizenship. The length of time depends on a couple of things; in my case, how long i’ve been married was a key determinant. I got my green card just over a year ago, and will be eligible to apply for citizenship in just under two years.

And, to be quite honest, about the only reason i can currently think of to become a citizen is the issue of voting, serving on juries, etc. I have no particular investment in nationalistic sentiments, either with respect to my country of birth, the country where i grew up, or my current country of residence. I love living in the US, many of my best friends are Americans, and i think that there is much to admire about this nation and its people. At the same time, i’m also very critical of much of what goes on in this country, and of the actions of the American government. Without wanting too sound to full of myself, i already know more about the history and political system of the United States than at least 90 percent of Americans, and pay closer attention to American current events than most citizens as well.

And none of that will change just because i pass a simple test and repeat a rather pointless oath. I’m as invested in the United States now as i ever would be after a citizenship ceremony. I pay taxes, i obey the law, and i think i would be at least as capable as the average American of casting an intelligent vote and serving on a jury.

Just MHO.

All that makes perfect sense, so if that is how you feel then you certainly should do as you please.

All the same: If you plan to make the U.S. your permanent home, and if you are critical of certain actions of the American government, then you know the only way you can really change things is to become a citizen and vote for people who feel as you do.

God knows we could use as many intelligent voters as we can get.

[Baron_Greenback]

@Schnitte

In the UK, citizens of other Commonwealth countries have the vote in general (i.e., Parliamentary) elections, and so do citizens of Ireland.

Forget about Irish citizens (that’s a really special case) but are you sure that Commonwealth citizens can vote in a general election? I know that that they can in local ones just by living there, paying taxes etc, but in a general?

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@mhendo

Because the law requires a wait of a certain number of years between gaining permanent residency and gaining citizenship. The length of time depends on a couple of things; in my case, how long i’ve been married was a key determinant. I got my green card just over a year ago, and will be eligible to apply for citizenship in just under two years.

And, to be quite honest, about the only reason i can currently think of to become a citizen is the issue of voting, serving on juries, etc. I have no particular investment in nationalistic sentiments, either with respect to my country of birth, the country where i grew up, or my current country of residence. I love living in the US, many of my best friends are Americans, and i think that there is much to admire about this nation and its people. At the same time, i’m also very critical of much of what goes on in this country, and of the actions of the American government. Without wanting too sound to full of myself, i already know more about the history and political system of the United States than at least 90 percent of Americans, and pay closer attention to American current events than most citizens as well.

And none of that will change just because i pass a simple test and repeat a rather pointless oath. I’m as invested in the United States now as i ever would be after a citizenship ceremony. I pay taxes, i obey the law, and i think i would be at least as capable as the average American of casting an intelligent vote and serving on a jury.

Just MHO.

Your honest opinion was what I sought; thank you.

One thing, though: I’m not sure from the above whether you intend to apply for citizenship when you are eligible. Do you?

[mhendo]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

One thing, though: I’m not sure from the above whether you intend to apply for citizenship when you are eligible. Do you?

I really don’t know. The idea of never being able to vote again is not something i like very much, so for that reason alone i might do it.

[Schnitte]

@Baron_Greenback

Forget about Irish citizens (that’s a really special case) but are you sure that Commonwealth citizens can vote in a general election? I know that that they can in local ones just by living there, paying taxes etc, but in a general?

Yup, I’m sure - see here (UK Electoral Commission website); although I was wrong about the non-EU Commonwealth citizens - I assumed they could not vote in local elections (thinking this was exhaustively dealt with by EU law), but in deed they can. Non-EU Commonwealth cannot, however, vote in EP elections.

So the situation is like this:

1. UK citizens can vote in general, local, and European elections in the UK (obviously);
2. The same goes for citizens of Commonwealth countries in the EU other than the UK (this concerns Malta and Cyprus);
3. Non-EU Commonwealth citizens vote in general and local, but not European elections;
4. Non-Commonwealth EU citizens vote in European and local, but not general elections;
5. Non-EU non-Commonwealth residents vote in no elections in the UK.
   Things are complicated further by the newly established delegated legislatures in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and by the fact that many Commonwealth citizens have British citizenship anyway due to their ancestry.

[ruadh]

@mhendo

And, to be quite honest, about the only reason i can currently think of to become a citizen is the issue of voting, serving on juries, etc.

There is one other reason, and that is permanent residency isn’t *necessarily * really permanent. You can lose it by spending too much time out of the US - and immigration officers are empowered to confiscate your card if they think you’re not really living in the US but just using the card to get in and out of the country easily. Whereas once you’re a citizen that’s it (barring evidence of fraudulent acquisition of citizenship etc).

Probably not a major concern of most people, but it is a reason why citizenship is better than residency even if you aren’t fussed about your civic duties.

[ruadh]

@Schnitte

In the UK, citizens of other Commonwealth countries have the vote in general (i.e., Parliamentary) elections, and so do citizens of Ireland.
…
In addition, in the UK, as in any other EU country, citizens of other EU member states have the vote in local (i.e., city and county council) and European Parliament elections. This is governed by EU law, however

Yup. In Ireland we have this really complicated system where:

• Irish citizens can vote in referenda, Presidential elections, Parliamentary Elections, European elections and local elections
• British citizens can vote in Parliamentary Elections, European elections and local elections
• Other EU citizens can vote in European elections and local elections
• Anyone on the register can vote in local elections

Under the Irish Constitution, if another country chooses to give resident Irish citizens voting rights in their parliamentary elections, their citizens can also be given (by legislation) voting rights here. But that hasn’t happened with anyone other than British citizens yet.

[Balthisar]

@ruadh

There is one other reason, and that is permanent residency isn’t *necessarily * really permanent. You can lose it by spending too much time out of the US - and immigration officers are empowered to confiscate your card if they think you’re not really living in the US but just using the card to get in and out of the country easily. Whereas once you’re a citizen that’s it (barring evidence of fraudulent acquisition of citizenship etc).

Probably not a major concern of most people, but it is a reason why citizenship is better than residency even if you aren’t fussed about your civic duties.

Excellent point. I’m an American working in Mexico, but my wife is a Mexican with permanent residency, who is accompanying me in Mexico while I work. The US law is that if you’re a permanent resident, you can’t spend more than 1 year outside of the country, otherwise you need a re-entry permit ($395). Despite being out of the country for less than a year, immigration hassled my wife last time we were home. The US law doesn’t say that weekends home don’t count, i.e., they should reset the counter.