# Non-citrus mild acidic liquid needed **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527 "2012-03-12T04:31:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CastleAnthrax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@CastleAnthrax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastleAnthrax)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/1 "2012-03-12T04:31:13Z")
I need something new to mix with my henna powder. Henna works best with lemon juice as a base, but apparently there are a lot of people who have reactions to citric acid on skin, so I’m thinking of changing. It also needs to not smell bad, so vinegar is out. Any suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/2 "2012-03-12T04:51:13Z")
White vinager, available in as low as 5% acidity in any grocery or pharmacy. Whoops er…what about vitamin C(ascorbic acid)? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/3 "2012-03-12T04:55:48Z")
Phosphoric acid, perhaps? (The stuff in Coca-Cola.) ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/4 "2012-03-12T05:04:16Z")
wine or vermouth? ---
**Author:** ![eldowan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@eldowan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldowan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/5 "2012-03-12T05:13:22Z")
Carbonated water? Isn’t that acidic? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/6 "2012-03-12T05:14:14Z")
Get two bottles and fill them with vinegar. Open one for the client and have them smell it to see if it’s acceptable. When they say no, ask them to smell it again, to be sure. Explain that the smell isn’t as bad as people think at first, and you really want them to give it a chance. Have them smell it one more time for good measure. Then offer to use the other bottle. Open it for them to smell. They’ll think it’s odorless. (Thank you Mr. Wizard!) ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/7 "2012-03-12T05:53:52Z")
tartaric acid ---
**Author:** ![Sandra\_Battye](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sandra_battye/32/552_2.png) [@Sandra\_Battye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandra_Battye)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/8 "2012-03-12T06:48:17Z")
Just noting that henna mixed with wine or vinegar smells AWFUL-- worse than the components. That’s why vinegar is out, not because of the odor of vinegar by itself. ---
**Author:** ![Corcaigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Corcaigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corcaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/9 "2012-03-12T14:03:30Z")
> [@HennaDancer](#): > > I need something new to mix with my henna powder. Henna works best with lemon juice as a base, but apparently there are a lot of people who have reactions to citric acid on skin, so I’m thinking of changing. It also needs to not smell bad, so vinegar is out. Any suggestions? Is this for hair colouring or tattooing? I ask because I know someone who uses henna on her hair (she has an impressive white Lily Munster style streak in her dark dark brown hair) black henna would work best, but it washes straight out, brown henna turns the streak blonde (and looks odd), red henna turns it tomato red and makes small children cry and cower in terror. She’s been trying to find ways to get the black henna to stay on her hair, I suggested glycerine since that seems to be a component in hair colourants, not sure how much you’d want to use, or if it would even be effective…? ---
**Author:** ![OldnCrinkly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OldnCrinkly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldnCrinkly)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/10 "2012-03-12T16:17:27Z")
I usually use plain water, but I have heard of people using tea. It is acidic and smells good. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/11 "2012-03-12T16:49:27Z")
> [@madrabbitwoman](#): > > tartaric acid If you can get tamarinds or tamarind concentrate, it’s pretty acidic — and the acid is mostly tartaric acid. However, it’s a bit of a specialty ingredient. Try looking in Asian grocery stores (either East Asian or South Asian.) ---
**Author:** ![Sandra\_Battye](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sandra_battye/32/552_2.png) [@Sandra\_Battye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandra_Battye)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/12 "2012-03-12T17:08:27Z")
Some experimentation will be required (I usually go with fresh lime juice to get a release then thin with black tea or water for my hair)… If you are trying to stay with the grocery store/natural route, you can try strong black tea (about a pH of 5), strong herbal tea (pH varies but around 5), or yogurt (pH of 4.25-4.5). These aren’t as strong as citrus/vinegar (pH of ~2.5) so you’ll probably have to wait longer for the henna to release. Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) is probably easiest to get and work with of the acids mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![geneb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e4f/32.png) [@geneb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geneb)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/13 "2012-03-12T19:14:37Z")
You could buy a bottle of Star San. It is a blend of phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid. Undiluted, it comes in at about 1.5 pH. Diluted 1 oz to 5 gallons of water it is around 3 pH. No aroma to speak of (just smells acidic) and can be purchased easily at any homebrewing store, online or otherwise. An 8 oz bottle runs around 7 dollars and will make 40 gallons of 3 pH solution that has no aroma. ---
**Author:** ![wheresmymind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@wheresmymind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheresmymind)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/14 "2012-03-12T21:52:00Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Get two bottles and fill them with vinegar. Open one for the client and have them smell it to see if it’s acceptable. When they say no, ask them to smell it again, to be sure. Explain that the smell isn’t as bad as people think at first, and you really want them to give it a chance. Have them smell it one more time for good measure. > > Then offer to use the other bottle. Open it for them to smell. They’ll think it’s odorless. > > (Thank you Mr. Wizard!) I was about to suggest some common household acids, but this post is pure genius. Do this! ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/15 "2012-03-14T12:25:36Z")
Frankly I find it hard to believe that people really have a sensitivity to citric acid as such. Not only is it to small of a molecule to be an allergen, but there is, of necessity, citric acid in every cell of everyone’s body. It is [a basic component of cell metabolism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle). People might, conceivably be sensitive to citrus fruit juices, which contain a lot of things besides citric acid, or to too much acidity, but not, I think, to pure citric acid, specifically and _per se_. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/16 "2012-03-14T12:52:02Z")
Pineapple juice -pH 3.3-3.6, within the ideal range Catherine gives for lawsone release. It’s far more expensive, though. You’ll have to decide whether to eat the cost or raise your prices. If it were I, I’d make up a separate batch of pineapple juice henna and save it for those who have a known sensitivity to citrus. Use the traditional lemon juice for everyone else. Corcaigh, [there’s no such thing as black henna](http://www.hennaforhair.com/science/whatsinit.html). There’s stuff [sold as black henna which can burn the shit out of you](http://www.hennapage.com/henna/ppd/index.html), but it’s not henna and not used by responsible mehendi artists. There’s also no such thing as blonde henna, only really weak henna without much dye (lawsone) in it, or other plants sold as henna. Henna is orange/red on hair and orange/brown on skin. Period. ---
**Author:** ![CastleAnthrax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@CastleAnthrax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastleAnthrax)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/17 "2012-03-14T13:59:25Z")
> [@Corcaigh](#): > > Is this for hair colouring or tattooing? I ask because I know someone who uses henna on her hair (she has an impressive white Lily Munster style streak in her dark dark brown hair) black henna would work best, but it washes straight out, brown henna turns the streak blonde (and looks odd), red henna turns it tomato red and makes small children cry and cower in terror. > > She’s been trying to find ways to get the black henna to stay on her hair, I suggested glycerine since that seems to be a component in hair colourants, not sure how much you’d want to use, or if it would even be effective…? It’s for skin. You don’t want to use lemon on your hair or it’ll get all dried out and crunchy. For hair, I just use water. If your friend was using henna, her hair would be a dark auburn. There is no such thing as black or brown or neutral henna, and real henna does not wash out as you describe. The stuff that’s sold as black henna for skin is terrible and dangerous stuff, usually leather or chemical hair dye,and can leave permanent scars or worse. The stuff sold as black henna for hair is usually indigo and is safe but a little tricky to use. Brown is usually a mix of henna and indigo, and neutral or clear henna is a plant called cassia. Stuff sold for hair is going to be fairly low quality, so not much stain, and full of twigs and stuff she’ll have to pick out of her hair after. She will want to use stuff sold by someone who also sells for skin, as she will get much better results. If she does a henna application followed by an indigo application, it’s a pain, but it will give her natural Superman-black hair that lasts for a few weeks at least. The indigo is less permanent than henna, so at least that portion will need to be redone, but the two-step process gives better results. I can recommend [www.kenzi.com](http://www.kenzi.com) or [www.hennasooq.com](http://www.hennasooq.com). Back to the OP, I have just completed a fairly extensive test to see how my henna at least reacts to lemon juice and water, and I found that distilled water makes the henna ready to use more quickly, but lemon juice paste lasts significantly longer. Dye release is beautiful with water, but I need a preservative, since I’m selling the paste as well as using it. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/18 "2012-03-14T21:35:27Z")
> [@HennaDancer](#): > > It’s for skin. You don’t want to use lemon on your hair or it’ll get all dried out and crunchy. MMDV (My Mileage Does Vary). I use lemon in my hair henna, and my hair is as soft as ever. It’s a little stiffer (not dried out and crunchy, just…tougher somehow) for the first couple of days after dying, but by the third shampoo, it goes back to soft but still stronger feeling. I use bottled lemon juice, not fresh, so maybe that makes a difference. I need to mix 300g of henna to a Mexican sour cream consistency to get all my hair, so I’m not squeezing that many lemons by hand! (er…ever again…) ---
**Author:** ![CastleAnthrax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@CastleAnthrax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastleAnthrax)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/19 "2012-03-15T02:08:52Z")
Do you have really oily hair otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-citrus-mild-acidic-liquid-needed/615527/20 "2012-03-15T03:33:49Z")
> [@HennaDancer](#): > > Do you have really oily hair otherwise? No, not really. It’s a little bit at the scalp, but not bad. I only need to shampoo it about 2 times a week and I use a rinse out conditioner each time (it’s about 2 inches below the bra strap, so I try to baby it a bit due to its length.) It’s your basic White Girl hair, somewhere between wavy and curly.