# Non-disabled people hitting the disabled door opener **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 8, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598 "2008-05-08T19:34:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/81 "2012-01-18T14:22:50Z")
In our building, opening the door without pushing the button requires a surprisingly great deal of effort as you have to fight the mechanism to open the door manually. Pushing the button is a no-brainer, in fact I suspect that manual openings are harder on the mechanism than using the button is. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/82 "2012-01-19T03:42:41Z")
Okay, so I began paying attention to this in earnest today. In my travels, I saw 5 disabled accessible doors with automatic door openers. ALL of them have a sticker on the window which says “Automatic CAUTION Door Activate Switch to Operate.” Which, it seems,[is ADA mandated signage](http://www.barrier-free.com/ada_signage.html). “Additionally, when a Knowing Act Switch is used to initiate the operation of the door operator, the doors shall be provided with signs on each side of the door where the switch is located, with the message “Activate Switch to Operate”. The lettering shall be white and the background shall be blue.” You know the sticker I’m talking about.[This one.](http://www.barrier-free.com/_images//CAD_Decal_w_Switch.jpg) So it’s right there. On the door. “Activate Switch to Operate”. To operate the door, activate the switch. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/83 "2012-01-19T16:35:11Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Disabled doors are fragile pieces of equipment and whether someone presses the button or not, the thing will break in a few years and need to be replaced anyway. Which isn’t the users fault. It is the fault of the building owner who is trying to address his ADA requirements but is too cheap to spend any real money doing it. There are plenty of refrigerated warehouse door activators out there that see 100x the use and abuse of the typical handicapped door switch without missing a beat. > [@YoDoc](#): > > If you don’t need it, don’t use it. Guess that means it’s back to the sod hut for me. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/84 "2012-01-19T17:37:24Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Okay, so I began paying attention to this in earnest today. In my travels, I saw 5 disabled accessible doors with automatic door openers. ALL of them have a sticker on the window which says “Automatic CAUTION Door Activate Switch to Operate.” > > Which, it seems,[is ADA mandated signage](http://www.barrier-free.com/ada_signage.html). “Additionally, when a Knowing Act Switch is used to initiate the operation of the door operator, the doors shall be provided with signs on each side of the door where the switch is located, with the message “Activate Switch to Operate”. The lettering shall be white and the background shall be blue.” > > You know the sticker I’m talking about.[This one.](http://www.barrier-free.com/_images//CAD_Decal_w_Switch.jpg) > > So it’s right there. On the door. “Activate Switch to Operate”. To operate the door, activate the switch. Just an observation - we have "Automatic CAUTION Door"s up here too (the word order always amuses me). In my particular case that I mentioned earlier in the thread the doors in question aren’t labelled that way; just one of those big pushbuttons with a wheelchair icon beside it. I wouldn’t care if our temperatures outside weren’t cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey (according to any interpretation of that euphemism :D). ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/85 "2012-01-19T20:16:19Z")
> [@quietob](#): > > I’m new here-- can’t get the quote thing to work right. > > ZenBeam: I see this all the time. Kids don’t just push the buttons, they hit them repeatedly with their fists even after the door starts opening. Parents say, “Wanna push the button?” Find something else for your child to break. > > elbows: As for not being able to tell if someone has a hidden problem and needs to push the button-- you’re right. But there must be one hell of an an epidemic of people with sore arms because so many people push these buttons when they have no parcels, strollers or kids in tow. > > Ambivalid: As for not being offended by the non-disabled pushing the buttons and as well as for not using them at all, this is the exception. I have discussed this issue with lots of other people in wheelchairs and they all feel exactly the same way as I do. > > Omar Little: To say I am offended by non-disabled people pushing the buttons is perhaps not the right way to explain it. It’s a sense of acute awareness that people take their able-bodied status for granted. In my head I’m saying, “Be grateful you’re not in a wheelchair and stop acting like you are because someday you might be and then, and only then, will you finally get it.” I will acknowledge that perhaps if I depended on these door-openers to get through doorways, I might be more noticing (and in turn, more upset) of everyday people using them when not needed. ---
**Author:** ![Minnie\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Minnie\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minnie_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/86 "2012-01-19T21:27:53Z")
The ingenious designers of the building I work in designed it with large, solid, heavy wooden doors. Most door handles are as far away from the hinge as possible to facilitate easier opening, but the genii that designed [these](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Schattner_Center.jpg) doors put them 6 inches from the edge of the door making the doors **very** heavy and hard to open. Not exactly conducive to the many elderly patients we have here. The door to the far left has the auto-opener with the button. The other three doors do not. Again, poor design to not have the large double door in the middle be auto-opening. I have seen many a person in a wheelchair or scooter curse the small opening the auto-door has. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/87 "2012-01-19T22:35:00Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Which isn’t the users fault. It is the fault of the building owner who is trying to address his ADA requirements but is too cheap to spend any real money doing it. > > There are plenty of refrigerated warehouse door activators out there that see 100x the use and abuse of the typical handicapped door switch without missing a beat. A refrigerated warehouse door is a completely different thing than a regular building which sees maybe a handful of handicapped users per week and a thousandfold number of non-handicapped users. No amount of “You people shouldn’t use this door” is going to protect machinery that is fragile precisely because it is barely used (and thus, the owners “cheaped out on it”). ---
**Author:** ![quietob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/a88e4f/32.png) [@quietob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quietob)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/88 "2012-01-19T23:16:11Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > So you have no evidence that normal use of the buttons does any damage to the doors. There is no answer that will satisfy you. This forum is called IN MY HUMBLE OPINION not EMPHATIC EVIDENCE. However, I will provide you what “evidence” I have observed during the 11 years that I have been in a wheelchair. During that time, I have logged (and I actually got out my calculator to work this out) approximately 2640 hours waiting for a wheelchair bus or taxi by doorways where there was an automatic door. During a typical hour at say, a grocery store or mall entrance, about 150 people will pass through the doors. Out of that 150, I might see one person in a wheelchair, three with walkers, two with canes, four very frail elderly people, eight adults/couples with either a stroller or kids or both with them, and six people completely loaded down with parcels and/or a cup of coffee. I can only guess at how many have a hidden disability, torn rotator cuff or balance problem, etc. Let’s be generous and say ten. If you’re keeping score, that’s 34 people out of 150 or 23% that actually _need_ the automatic door opener. However, out of 150 people, I will see at least 20 more that don’t fit into any of the above categories (unless, as I posted before, there is an epidemic of people with sore arms). Common sense would dictate that any mechanical device that is activated 36% (and I know that’s not a staggering number) of the time as opposed to only 23% of the time, is going to break down sooner. And I didn’t even factor in the multiple severe whacks the buttons get from children (I mean the parents who encourage their kids to abuse the button). To the many of you who have pointed out that these buttons and doors are flimsy and should be made to withstand more wear and tear…perhaps the manufacturers, who intended these systems to provide independence for the disabled, did not realize so many others would be availing themselves of this convenience. Therefore, they did not make buttons and mechanized doors that were intended for excessive use. Disabled people make up a mere fraction of the population and even less of those go out in public, and this is the usage “norm” that manufacturers would be basing their designs on. Everyone, please feel free to question whether my statistical data regarding how many people I observe in an hour and what percentage of those people are doing what it is that they are doing, is in the least bit accurate. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/89 "2012-01-20T01:48:30Z")
> [@Caricci](#): > > The disabled door is often hard to pull. And, seriously, who’s it hurting if I push that button? I hate the doors that are too heavy to open by hand. And it is much easier for me to spot the button wherever they stuck it than for my visually impaired friends. I know once I find the stupid button the door will open easily. I have no idea whether if I push on it, it will open or not. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/90 "2012-01-20T02:19:32Z")
> [@quietob](#): > > To the many of you who have pointed out that these buttons and doors are flimsy and should be made to withstand more wear and tear…perhaps the manufacturers, who intended these systems to provide independence for the disabled, did not realize so many others would be availing themselves of this convenience. Therefore, they did not make buttons and mechanized doors that were intended for excessive use. Disabled people make up a mere fraction of the population and even less of those go out in public, and this is the usage “norm” that manufacturers would be basing their designs on. I’d buy that for the first year they were out. Perhaps even the first 18 months. But how long has this been a problem now? More than a decade, certainly. So despite what they designed them for originally, they’ve had many field years to see whether their design was adequate for actual use. That they’ve failed to make significant improvement puts the responsibility right back onto them. If everyone drove their car perfectly, we’d not need seat belts. But they don’t, so we do. Good engineers design for actual problems, not theoretical utopias. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/91 "2012-01-20T02:28:34Z")
> [@quietob](#): > > Everyone, please feel free to question whether my statistical data regarding how many people I observe in an hour and what percentage of those people are doing what it is that they are doing, is in the least bit accurate. You act as if every autobutton door all over the world is constantly breaking down or inop, exactly when you need it, and because of the extra 12 % using it (or whatever the percentage is). Along with your “statistics” on which people shouldn’t be allowed to use the door without fear of offending an on-looking disabled person, perhaps you should include actual statistics of how often these doors do break down and how many of them break down on a regular basis as opposed to how many exist. Because I’ve been in a lot of places (including an office building I worked in for 5 years, and a University I worked at for 12 years) and have rarely seen one break down at all, let alone often enough to inconvenience a disabled person. You’d think that the ones at the University gym where I worked would be a pretty high risk factor, what with all the jocks slamming in and out of the doors. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/92 "2012-01-20T02:29:53Z")
> [@quietob](#): > > There is no answer that will satisfy you. Well excuse me for not immediately believing you without a shred of evidence. How dare a non-handicapped person question a handicapped person! Maybe you could have tried to actually answer the question. > [@](#): > > This forum is called IN MY HUMBLE OPINION not EMPHATIC EVIDENCE. However, I will provide you what “evidence” I have observed during the 11 years that I have been in a wheelchair. During that time, I have logged (and I actually got out my calculator to work this out) approximately 2640 hours waiting for a wheelchair bus or taxi by doorways where there was an automatic door. > > During a typical hour at say, a grocery store or mall entrance, about 150 people will pass through the doors. Out of that 150, I might see one person in a wheelchair, three with walkers, two with canes, four very frail elderly people, eight adults/couples with either a stroller or kids or both with them, and six people completely loaded down with parcels and/or a cup of coffee. I can only guess at how many have a hidden disability, torn rotator cuff or balance problem, etc. Let’s be generous and say ten. If you’re keeping score, that’s 34 people out of 150 or 23% that actually _need_ the automatic door opener. However, out of 150 people, I will see at least 20 more that don’t fit into any of the above categories (unless, as I posted before, there is an epidemic of people with sore arms). > > Common sense would dictate that any mechanical device that is activated 36% (and I know that’s not a staggering number) of the time as opposed to only 23% of the time, is going to break down sooner. And I didn’t even factor in the multiple severe whacks the buttons get from children (I mean the parents who encourage their kids to abuse the button). > > To the many of you who have pointed out that these buttons and doors are flimsy and should be made to withstand more wear and tear…perhaps the manufacturers, who intended these systems to provide independence for the disabled, did not realize so many others would be availing themselves of this convenience. Therefore, they did not make buttons and mechanized doors that were intended for excessive use. Disabled people make up a mere fraction of the population and even less of those go out in public, and this is the usage “norm” that manufacturers would be basing their designs on. > > Everyone, please feel free to question whether my statistical data regarding how many people I observe in an hour and what percentage of those people are doing what it is that they are doing, is in the least bit accurate. It’s not the statistical data of who uses the button that I question. It’s your assumption that breakage rate is solely due to the number of door openings. How do you know that the kids whacking the door button aren’t the key figure? How do you know that it isn’t mostly a function of time? How do you know it isn’t people manually opening the door _without_ using the button that matters most? You don’t know any of this, you don’t know that normal button use causes problems, you’re just making assumptions, and then telling the rest of us what to do based on your unfounded assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/93 "2012-01-20T02:40:21Z")
Not all the doors with this feature are heavy or difficult to open; in fact I’d say that _more_ so than not these doors are identical to the surrounding doors, they simply have been equipped with an electric door opener. Now this is not to say that these heavy, clunky doors outfitted with the openers don’t exist, I just don’t encounter them as often as they are being portrayed to exist here in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/94 "2012-01-20T07:30:08Z")
During periods of wheelchaired-ness I welcomed the able-bodied who could stride over and press that big gong. I scooted thru before they could get back over there to file out. I’ve never timed it; if you are the one who pushes the big button, how much time do you have to get back into alignment to get out the door? Like I said, I’ve always depended on the kindness of strangers. (Batting my eyes.) ---
**Author:** ![quietob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/a88e4f/32.png) [@quietob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quietob)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/95 "2012-01-20T09:15:23Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Well excuse me for not immediately believing you without a shred of evidence. How dare a non-handicapped person question a handicapped person! Maybe you could have tried to actually answer the question. > > It’s not the statistical data of who uses the button that I question. It’s your assumption that breakage rate is solely due to the number of door openings. How do you know that the kids whacking the door button aren’t the key figure? How do you know that it isn’t mostly a function of time? How do you know it isn’t people manually opening the door _without_ using the button that matters most? > > You don’t know any of this, you don’t know that normal button use causes problems, you’re just making assumptions, and then telling the rest of us what to do based on your unfounded assumptions. The post you are so bent out of shape about _ **was** _ my attempt to answer the question. How much more deeply could I have delved into the subject matter than in that post. You’re insulted that I said that no answer will satisfy you. Well, that one didn’t satisfy you either, did it? Because here you are again, demanding an answer. At no point, have I claimed to be an expert on this issue. I am simply giving my opinion based on 11 years of observations. The fact that I do push the button on any and all automatic doors that I encounter because it has been part of my everyday routine for the past 11 years does not make me an expert but does mean that I will notice more often than the average person, how often these doors break down and who’s pushing the buttons. Since you’re so obsessed on getting it, would you care to come up with some evidence yourself or are you more content with shooting down every attempt I make at simply voicing my opinion on something that I just might have a little insight into? Anyway, I’m just repeating myself. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/96 "2012-01-20T13:08:47Z")
> [@quietob](#): > > At no point, have I claimed to be an expert on this issue. **I am simply giving my opinion** based on 11 years of observations. The fact that I do push the button on any and all automatic doors that I encounter because it has been part of my everyday routine for the past 11 years does not make me an expert but does mean that I will notice more often than the average person, how often these doors break down and who’s pushing the buttons. > > Since you’re so obsessed on getting it, would you care to come up with some evidence yourself or are you more content with shooting down every attempt I make at **simply voicing my opinion** on something that I just might have a little insight into? Lets look at the original post I quoted: > [@quietob](#): > > Yes, it absolutely does cause the buttons and the door itself to break down more often. That’s not just “voicing an opinion”. That’s you asserting as fact something that you have no evidence for. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/97 "2012-01-20T14:41:53Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Lets look at the original post I quoted: > That’s not just “voicing an opinion”. That’s you asserting as fact something that you have no evidence for. I have to keep on top of the handicapped door at the library I work at and **quietob** is _technically_ right. Use is the primary factor in handicapped door failure. However, what I have learned from the door guys is that it’s not just overuse, it’s any use. Using the button too often will break the door. But so will a person just opening (not even yanking) the door without using the button. Even using the button too little can cause the mechanism to seize up in colder climates. Bottom line, handicapped doors are fucking fragile and I wish people would stop bitching about them. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/98 "2012-01-20T17:31:38Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > A refrigerated warehouse door is a completely different thing than a regular building which sees maybe a handful of handicapped users per week and a thousandfold number of non-handicapped users. > > No amount of “You people shouldn’t use this door” is going to protect machinery that is fragile precisely because it is barely used (and thus, the owners “cheaped out on it”). The barely used argument is an excuse to be cheap. Sure it might be the case in malls and large retail establishments where it can be just one of many doors. However I see them installed as the only point of entry on assisted living complexes, elderly apartment complexes, and nursing homes all the time. There is no way to avoid using the door. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/99 "2012-01-20T17:37:31Z")
Sounds like the conclusion is that these doors are poorly designed for their use. A quick fix to meet the regulatory requirement but prone to failure. OP’s rant should be towards the designer of the door as opposed to the rest of the population. ---
**Author:** ![quietob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/a88e4f/32.png) [@quietob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quietob)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598/100 "2012-01-20T21:14:11Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > That’s not just “voicing an opinion”. That’s you asserting as fact something that you have no evidence for. Again, with the “evidence”. This is getting tedious. This thread, at least between you and me, is no longer about the issue of non-disabled people pushing the button on automatic doors, nor is it even about how fragile the systems are. It is now about you nit picking every little thing I say, how I word my sentences, the exact words I use, whether I say, “my opinion” or “it absolutely does” and on and on and on!!! I said what I had to say about non-disabled persons pushing the buttons on automatic doors way, way back and I have nothing more to say about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-disabled-people-hitting-the-disabled-door-opener/448598.md?page=6)