# Non-English pronunciation: Ng **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348 "2004-06-02T23:32:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![nocturnal\_tick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@nocturnal\_tick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nocturnal_tick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/21 "2004-06-03T13:25:32Z")
_Off-topic_ For anyone who watches University Challenge, they often have a contestant by the name of Ng on for the Cambridge / Oxford competition. (I think it’s the OxCam game anyway). For those of you unfamiliar with the game the teams must buzz in to answer a starter question. Whoever buzzes in the announcer says the University name and then the name of the Contestant. I still laugh at the way the announcer can say, in this suave, English accent _“Cambridge, Ng”_😃 It’s sorta like the noise you would thrust when thrusting your pelvis, according to University Challenge. ---
**Author:** ![nocturnal\_tick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@nocturnal\_tick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nocturnal_tick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/22 "2004-06-03T13:26:35Z")
:smack: It’s sorta like the noise you would **make** when thrusting your pelvis, according to University Challenge ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/23 "2004-06-03T14:38:13Z")
What about “Nguyen”? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/24 "2004-06-03T14:54:16Z")
> [@arjee](#): > > A local newscaster with the last name Ng, pronounces it on the air as, “ing,” but a co-worker of mine pronounces her last name of Ng as, “nung” (rhymes with tongue). A Tagalog-speaking friend confirms the “nung” pronunciation for Filipinos happening to have this surname. Apparently, this name is treated differently in different areas. > [@Max Carnage](#): > > What about “Nguyen”? **Passably** – pronounce _Nguyen_ exactly like “Gwen”. **Perfectly** – practice pronouncing “ng” at the beginning of words. It’s actually pretty easy (remember **m** is to **b** as **n** is to **d** as **ng** is to **g**. If you can say “goat”, you can say “ngoat”. Once that’s down, say “Ngwen” to rhyme with “Gwen”. ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/25 "2004-06-03T14:56:22Z")
> [@Max Carnage](#): > > What about “Nguyen”? I have worked with a few people with this last name and I’m pretty sure it’s pronounced like it’s spelled. Ng-win ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/26 "2004-06-03T15:00:15Z")
Over 20 replies and still no mention of the They Might Be Giants song “Ana Ng”? (And no smart aleck coming in to tell us that “it’s pronounced Throat-Warbler Mangrove”?) ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/27 "2004-06-03T15:35:37Z")
> [@BurnMeUp](#): > > I have worked with a few people with this last name and I’m pretty sure it’s pronounced like it’s spelled. > > Ng-win To an English speaker, the spelling leaves something unclear: number of syllables. By spelling alone, _Nguyen_ could have two syllables and be pronounced “ngoo-yen”. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/28 "2004-06-03T18:19:02Z")
A friend of mine in Singapore has this surname. I asked him and he said it was pronounced just as it looks, Ng, sort of a very short _nuh_ sound followed by a final hard _g_. As one of my many bids for the SDMB prize for Stating The Obvious, it seems from all the replies that there is no consensus as to the pronunciation. This means you are all the more entitled to simply ask the guy how you should pronounce it. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/29 "2004-06-03T18:29:48Z")
xash: > [@](#): > > That leaves us with: How do you pronounce Mbossa? Listen to Hanson records over and over, and you’ll get the it right eventually. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/30 "2004-06-03T20:24:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Blake > I just would have preferred to be all cool and simply say that I have an appointemnet with Dr. X rather than explaining that I can’t pronounce the name. I’m sure the receptionist gets it a dozen times a day, but it’s an ego thing with me. I dunno, ‘Ng’ is easy, but I’m having trouble trying to pronounce ‘appointemnet’. ---
**Author:** ![wisernow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@wisernow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wisernow)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/31 "2004-06-03T20:52:47Z")
I don’t believe it can be pronounced as _Eng_ or _Ing_, for a very simple reason. Please realize that this doctor is a Vietnamese(or Chinese whatever…) and his name is also Vietnamese(or Chinese whatever…). It was out of necessity that he had to find ways of writing his name in english. He had a choice and he thus exercised that choice by _choosing_ the best possible combination of letters to form a word that would be closest to the correct pronunciation of his name. The fact that he chose only Ng when he could very well have chosen Eng or Ing, implies that the correct pronunciation _cannot_ be Eng or Ing. It has to be pronounced as what anyone knowing english would naturally pronounce Ng. IMHO a way to pronounce it would be to start saying NO but then as soon as the vocal chords have started producing the first sound of Nnnn…suddenly change your decision and try to end with a _g_ as in _go_. There…you have it! ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/32 "2004-06-03T21:04:47Z")
When the Vietnamese started coming to Australia in large numbers, the poor buggers had to put up with the Aussies pronouncing Nguyen as Nyoo-an (s in Nyoo-an used cars). Some people still use this pronunciation, and most Vietnamese are resigned to it. Things have improved these days, and most English speakers here have upgraded the way that say this surname to a simple _Win_. This is quite acceptable, and most Vietnamese appreciate it (after twenty years of hearing _nyoo-an_ from us). If you want to go one step further, try saying _nwin_. Then, to get real close to the proper Vietnamese way, you’ll need to get the _Ng_ thing happening, and also introduce a very short schwa sound immediately after the Ng sound and before the _w_ sound. It’s actually a two-syllable name, but the first is quite sublimated. And of course the ‘w’ isn’t actually a ‘w’ at all (the letter doesn’t exist in Vietnamese); represented by the ‘y’ in _Nguyen_, this sound is what you get if you try to say ‘w’ without bringing your lips together (it’s a bit like the phantom “almost w” in the French _oui_). In other words, compared to _Nguyen_, _Ng_ is a walk in the park. ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/33 "2004-06-03T21:19:14Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > Over 20 replies and still no mention of the They Might Be Giants song “Ana Ng”? 1. I have my doubts about how many people have ever heard the song 2. You’d have to also know the name of the song, since you can’t tell WTF he’s saying. (he says it as “Ang”, IIRC) ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/34 "2004-06-03T23:27:01Z")
> [@](#): > > The fact that he chose only Ng when he could very well have chosen Eng or Ing, implies that the correct pronunciation cannot be Eng or Ing. Yeah well, you’d think that. But then you have probably never seen Maori spelling of names. The letters are not the best English representation of pronunciation by any stretch. One of my favourits has always been “Whangaparita”, probably best repesented by the speling ‘Fungapreeta’. The point is tha foreign speakers don’t always adopt the best English pronunciation in their spellings. Often they have developed an alternative spelling system using uncommon letter combinations like ‘wh’ and ‘ng’ to represent sounds that don’t truly exist in English. Because of that it’s impossible to conclude that ‘Eng’ isn’t pronounced ‘Eng’ or ‘Ung’ or ‘Enjee’ or anything else. ---
**Author:** ![ummm.yeahh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ummm.yeahh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ummm.yeahh)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/35 "2004-06-04T03:39:00Z")
The French would have us believe “Roy” is pronounced “Wah”. Friggin’ hockey players… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Myglaren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Myglaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myglaren)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/36 "2004-06-04T11:14:02Z")
Can’t remember where I saw it, in some book I read a few years ago but which one is lost to me. Anyway, one of the prime characters was called Nguyen Ng, and he pronouced it ‘John Wayne’ Pondered on this many a time over tha past few years, and the above thread has done absolutely nothing towards clearing up the mystery. I would say, in answer to the OP, ask the receptionist, she will probably mispronounce it anyway, or garble the pronunciation into something she thinks you can handle. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/37 "2004-06-04T11:32:48Z")
I worked for two different bosses in Hong Kong who both had this surname. The correct Cantonese pronunciation is indeed exactly as it’s written. Say a word that ends in ‘ng’ and remove the rest of the word. It’s a short hum with your mouth open - it’s not that difficult to pronounce. A similar ‘consonant’ sound is used for the beginning of the words that mean, e.g. “I/me” (ngoh) and “love” (ngoi). (Note, my transliterations there, not official ones.) ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/38 "2004-06-04T15:06:02Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > The correct Cantonese pronunciation is indeed exactly as it’s written. Say a word that ends in ‘ng’ and remove the rest of the word. It’s a short hum with your mouth open - it’s not that difficult to pronounce. What throws people accustomed to Western languages is that in some dialects (_viz_ Cantonese), Chinese allows syllables that consist solely of a consonant sound. In this case, that consonant is the velar nasal “ng” (International Phonetic Association symbol is “ŋ”). Compare the velar nasal to the familiar bilabial nasal (m) and alveolar nasal (n). Like **m** and **n** , **ng** can be pronounced in an extended manner – one can hum “mmmmm”, “nnnnnn”. Likewise, one can also hum ng – “ŋŋŋŋŋŋŋŋŋ”. By contrast, consonants like **t** and **k** cannot be extended. Their pronunciation has a temporary and punctuated saliency. What does this all mean? In short, a few languages allow extendable consonants to form syllabic nuclei in much the same way as (naturally extendable) vowels do. So the name _Ng_ can be regarded in the same way as names like _Oh_ (Japanese) and _U_ (Burmese) – it is a single-sound syllable. Other extendable sounds are used to form syllabic nuclei. Not too unfamiliar are the use or “r” and “l” as syllabic nuclei in Slavic languages – Czech _Plzen_, Serbo-Croatian _hrvatski_. Also, IIRC, in some dialects of Chinese, the number “two” (Mandarin “two” spelled _er[sup]4[/sup]_ in Pinyin) is pronounced much like “zzzzzzzzzh”, except the tongue tip is raised near the roof of the mouth. Finally, in some American Indian languages, such [Bella Coola](http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/naind/html/na_034200_salishanlang.htm), words like _sps_ (pronounced more or less “ssspsss”) exist. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/39 "2004-06-04T23:12:45Z")
So now I have another unrelated question. How do people shout these names? It seems like a word lacking vowels can’t really be projected. I just tried shouting ‘ng’ and the loudest sound I could make can hardly be heard from the next room. It’s like humming really loudly. Do people add extra fake vowels when shouting these names to give them projection? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348/40 "2004-06-05T15:35:14Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > So now I have another unrelated question. > > How do people shout these names? It seems like a word lacking vowels can’t really be projected. I just tried shouting ‘ng’ and the loudest sound I could make can hardly be heard from the next room. It’s like humming really loudly. > > Do people add extra fake vowels when shouting these names to give them projection? That’s a great question. Surely the combined wherewithall of the SDMB can get to the bottom of this! 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-english-pronunciation-ng/248348.md?page=3)