Non-ground pork does not need to be "well done" any longer

[pulykamell]

@Amateur_Barbarian

Chicken should still be well-cooked, as samonella is a significant problem in poultry processing. (It was minor until the deregulation of the Reagan era, I have been told, and now infests the entire industry, probably ineradicably.)

Yeah, I’m somewhat, erm, “liberal” when it comes to hygiene in the kitchen when cooking for myself, but I treat poultry like nuclear waste. OK, maybe not quite that level, but I make sure raw poultry doesn’t touch anything that may get eaten uncooked or will touch anything uncooked (like utensils, cutting boards, etc. I’m not worried enough to have separate cutting boards for it, but I do cut my poultry last and give the board a good scrub afterwards.) It’s the one foodstuff I am really cautious about.

I can’t remember what the percentage is, but some ungodly number of chicken (ETA: commercially available in the US) have salmonella on them, like a majority.

[Chefguy]

@Arkcon

Well done juicy pork is very easily achieved. There are two secrets: brining in advance for maybe two days really hydrates the meat fibers. It can be well done, and still very juicy. I fact, it can be overdone and tasteless, and still juicy, if brined.

If you’re grilling with indirect heat, and you put pots of water over the direct heat, adjacent to the pork, and maybe another pot of water beneath the roast (better, put some moist food, like potatoes or rice to catch the pork drippings) the steam will also insure very moist meat.

That would explain it. I don’t think I’ve ever planned that far ahead for a meal, and we seldom eat pork other than in stir-fry or chili verde, which is a whole different style of cooking.

[Mister_Rik]

@Broomstick

It wasn’t just bacteria, it was parasites like trichinosis.

That’s what I was trying to think of, but my mind totally blanked out on the word.

@don_t_ask

When did the USDA first recommend this? I have cooked pork this way since at least the 90s. My turn of the century The Complete Meat Cookbook suggests that 150-155 is best and 160-165 is “juicy enough to eat, although not ideal.”

That WebMD article is dated May 25, 2011, so a little before that. I remember the local health department sending notifications about it out to foodservice establishments.

@Arkcon

It really does depend on the cut, for me. A roasted pork loin, oven or grill, is very nice when cooked pink. The meat structure is fine grained, and solid, so that’s OK. But a pork shoulder, if the bit surrounding the bones is bloody like a rare beef steak – well, I double check the temperature, and I do eat it if its OK, but pork of that texture, of that condition, bloody – no, that doesn’t really work. But I may have been conditioned by years of well done pork.

In this case, it was small pork loins, marinated overnight, then sliced to about 1/2"-thick pieces. Then those pieces were hammered out flat and marked on the flame broiler, laid out in a single layer on sheet pans, and finished in the oven. We actually cooked them to 150-155°F in the oven. Once done cooking, they were shingled into the serving pan, drizzled with hoisen sauce and finished with mango salsa. Juicy and delicious (I ate several pink pieces myself).

But directly to the O.P., if you’re cooking a pot luck, then yeah, you have to expect old fogies will insist on well done pork. Pretty much, well done everything, is the norm, for potlucks, right?

We figured the complainer was some older person still stuck in 1950’s “cook the hell out of everything” cuisine.

@Amateur_Barbarian

Chicken should still be well-cooked, as samonella is a significant problem in poultry processing.

Oh, absolutely. 165° minimum there. (Orange Chicken was the other entree option on the menu last night.)

[Lynn_Bodoni]

@ZipperJJ

But…ham! Ham is the pinkest pink food there is! (Aside from cotton candy. Mmmm…cotton candy)

I regard ham as a whole different meat. Yes, it comes from the pig, but it has undergone a magical process which transforms it into the tastiest meat ever. Smoked turkey is the second tastiest meat.

No, I am not addicted to smoked/cured meats. I can quit any time I want to, do you hear me? ANY TIME!

[Jeff_Lichtman]

@ZipperJJ

But…ham! Ham is the pinkest pink food there is! (Aside from cotton candy. Mmmm…cotton candy)

Ham is pink because it’s cured. It will stay pink no matter how much you cook it, so eating pink ham doesn’t present the same psychological barrier that eating a pink pork chop does.

[TriPolar]

Lean pork is tricky to cook until it’s white without drying out, but some things will help. Thin cuts are the most difficult, get pork chops at least an inch thick, two inches thick is pretty good. Cook all pork at a lower temperture. Brown it quickly before or after cooking, but 325F is fine, even 300. It takes longer to cook, but then you have wider window to get it out of the oven before it gets dry.

Now pork chops are actually special. After a quick browning they should always be simmered in some gravy for a while to tenderize them. That’s right, I said always, I’m right about this and I’m not backing down. It’s not really a pork chop in my book if you don’t do that. However pork sliced from the upper rib cooked on the grill can be quite tasty also.

[fubbleskag]

@Jeff_Lichtman

A lot of today’s pork is so lean that it can’t be cooked to 160 without drying it out. A modern pork chop cooked to 145 is still somewhat juicy, and even if it’s a little pink inside it has a cooked texture. I don’t know that I’d want to eat a pork chop that had been cooked only to, say, 120 (like a medium-rare steak), although I think it would be safe as long as the outside had been cooked thoroughly.

BTW, for those more familiar with the Celsius scale:

160 F ~= 71 C
145 F ~= 63 C
120 F ~= 49 C

120F is not medium-rare

[Mister_Rik]

@fubbleskag

120F is not medium-rare

Whoa, I didn’t even catch that earlier. You’re right. 120 is more like “bloody rare”, and not hot enough to be served in a restaurant, according to WA state health code.

[pulykamell]

@TriPolar

Now pork chops are actually special. After a quick browning they should always be simmered in some gravy for a while to tenderize them. That’s right, I said always, I’m right about this and I’m not backing down. It’s not really a pork chop in my book if you don’t do that. However pork sliced from the upper rib cooked on the grill can be quite tasty also.

Yeah, we might have a disagreement. Maybe. Here’s the thing: the cut of pork chop is important for this. Blade/shoulder chops or sirloin chops work well with simmering. Loin chops (like your “center-cut” pork chop) do not. I treat those like pork loin. If I want to serve center cut chops with sauce, I fry them up quickly, cook them to the medium stage, and pour sauce over them. But my favorite way to make loin chops is to marinade/brine them and grill them, taking care not to overcook. Loin chops just get mealy and overcooked when braised, IME and IMHO. Not everyone seems to mind that, but I can’t stand braised pork chops when made with loin chops. I thought this applied to all pork chops in general, until I realized that blade chops, because of where they’re cut (near the shoulder), have a lot of connective tissue and work really well for braising applications.

America’s Test Kitchen even says so:

When braising pork chops, it’s important to avoid lean loin chops that have a tendency to dry out when even slightly overcooked. Instead, begin with a blade chop, which, like other braising cut…(more)[

[pulykamell]

I guess a good analogy is that I treat loin chops (and pork loin in general) like I would chicken breast in terms of how I cook it. They cook up similarly and are often freely substitutable in recipes. The only difference is I will cook pork loin chops and loin to lower levels of doneness, which I won’t with chicken. But I cook it “all the way,” too sometimes. Blade/rib chops I treat more like chicken thighs.

[Grrr]

I used to cook pork medium (or pink in the middle) when I was a teenager. After years of conditioning from my mother and my boss (A restaurant manager) telling me to NOT do that unless I’ve got some sort of death wish, I finally caved and started cooking it well done style.

Now, a couple of decades later, I find out that I was doing it right to begin with. :smack:
All those years wasted! Dammit!

[TriPolar]

@pulykamell

Yeah, we might have a disagreement. Maybe. Here’s the thing: the cut of pork chop is important for this. Blade/shoulder chops or sirloin chops work well with simmering. Loin chops (like your “center-cut” pork chop) do not. I treat those like pork loin. If I want to serve center cut chops with sauce, I fry them up quickly, cook them to the medium stage, and pour sauce over them. But my favorite way to make loin chops is to marinade/brine them and grill them, taking care not to overcook. Loin chops just get mealy and overcooked when braised, IME and IMHO. Not everyone seems to mind that, but I can’t stand braised pork chops when made with loin chops. I thought this applied to all pork chops in general, until I realized that blade chops, because of where they’re cut (near the shoulder), have a lot of connective tissue and work really well for braising applications.

America’s Test Kitchen even says so:

Sure, bone-in loin slices may not braise well, but they’re not pork chops. Pork chops get simmered in gravy.

[pulykamell]

@TriPolar

Sure, bone-in loin slices may not braise well, but they’re not pork chops. Pork chops get simmered in gravy.

What kind of heathen are you? (I grew up with pork chops normally being breaded and fried, myself. Sometimes with a bit of gravy poured over them. Sometimes in a sandwich. Yes, bone-in. We weirdos do that in Chicago. I should correct myself. I said grillig is my favorite prep of pork chops. I should amend that to “tied with” breading and frying.)