# Non-"kiddie" animation **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 17, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588 "2002-06-17T21:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/1 "2002-06-17T21:13:02Z")
It seems that these days animation is used only to entertain children by Disney, Pixar and Dreamworks, not that there’s anything wrong with that. I liked **Shrek** a great deal, but I was amazed and very entertained to see a movie called **Light Years** a few days ago. I’d seen it before, but had somehow forgotten about it. It was interesting and very well done; wonderful animation. What did you think of it, and what are your favorite animated movies? (And has anyone ever read the book **Light Years** is based on, “Metal Men Against Gandahar”?) “I was/will be your friend.” ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/2 "2002-06-17T22:07:53Z")
I love Aardman animation. Wallace and Grommit, and in particular “The Wrong Trousers”. Creature Comforts is also a brilliant piece ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/3 "2002-06-17T22:16:21Z")
I get the sense that certain animated series- Batman Beyond/ The Animated Series and Invader Zim for example- are marketed towards children merely because they’re animated, but they’re _really_ for teens and adults. At least that’s what I tell myself… 🙂 As for movies, I love \*\* Titan AE\*\* and \*\* The Road to El Dorado\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/4 "2002-06-17T22:34:12Z")
The short-lived Clerks animated series is most definitely not aimed at kids. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/5 "2002-06-18T00:04:00Z")
“Short-lived” ? That’s an understatement. Weren’t there just two episodes, the second being a clip show? Lately, The Movie Network has been running _Heavy Metal 2000_, which is extremely R for entrail-dripping violence and somewhat R for nudity. Too bad the story is soooo dumb. fakk you, pal ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/6 "2002-06-18T02:50:46Z")
Hrm. Slim list. If I stick to only good ones, even slimmer. There was an abominably bad French film in the seventies that was called **Fantastic Planet**. It was an animated sci-fi film, and was lauded as “visionary” and “masterful” by the sort of people who don’t like either science fiction or animation. **Fire and Ice** was one of Ralph Bakshi’s more tolerable efforts. Epic barbarian fantasy, inspired by the paintings of Frank Frazetta. It’s been years since I saw it, but I loved it when I was a teenager. **Wizards** , also by Ralph Bakshi. Much more adult themed than **Fire and Ice**. More “cartoony” too. The plot concerns an Elven nation being invaded by an army of post-apocalyptic Nazi goblins. Really. Uses a lot of roto-scoping, which is annoying. Although a kids film, I really liked **The Prince of Egypt**. A good retelling of the story of Moses, and the songs aren’t too terrible. I was disappointed by **Titan A.E.**. Neat animation, but the story was just pathetic, and the characters were just staggeringly unrealistic. Especially the captain. I suppose **The Yellow Submarine** counts. Better music than you’ll ever find in a Disney film, at least. There was Richard Linkleter’s mind-blowing **Waking Life** a few years ago. Not your standard animated movie. I think it’s still making the rounds of the arthouse theaters. Uses roto-scoping, but unlike Bakshi’s miserable efforts in his Lord of the Rings films, **Waking Life** uses it to transcendent effect. Definetly a two-joint movie. Actually, Bakshi got the roto-scope thing right once: **American Pop**. The characters have a naturalness and fluidity that few other animated films can match, but the story itself is a mess. It follows a musically inclined family through the generations, from the first one off the boat until his coke-dealing New Wave descendent gets a record contract some time in the '80s. If it had stuck with any one of these characters, it might have been a really good movie, but like so many animated features aimed at “adults,” the story is simply worthless. Some time in the nineties, Bakshi returned and inflicted **Cool World** on an unsuspecting public. Not an entirely animated film, it instead mixed live action and animation, like some sort of sleazy Mary Poppins. Execrable. Avoid at all costs. Bakshi also did a movie called **Fritz the Cat** , based off the classic R. Crumb comic, but the less said about that the better. Come to think of it, I think Ralph Bakshi has done more to retard the growth of adult-themed animation in this country than Disney, Warner Brothers, and Hanna-Barbera rolled into one. There was the classic **Heavy Metal** film, which was much better when nobody could get their hands on a copy of it. If your definition of “adult animation” pretty much begins and ends with cartoon boobies, this is your film. **Heavy Metal 2000** is the same, only more so. There was the beautiful **Final Fatasy: The Spirits Within** , but that was an anime at heart, and had all the typical plot defects and cliches that plague that genre. (Apocalypse, giant tentacled monsters, and use of non-sensical new age mysticism to resolve the plot). Speaking of anime… Well, I won’t, since it’s too big a genre and I know too little about it to speak authoritativly. So I’ll limit myself to those films which have got an American theatrical release: **Akira** : The archetypal anime. Teenage boy devolpes amazing psychic powers and uses them to turn himself into a giant tentacled monster who destroys Tokyo, and then vanishes because of a pair of cryptic, yoda-like children who speak in sentence fragments. Still, it looks fantastic, and the bike chase at the beginning is worth the price of a rental all by itself. **Ghost in the Shell** : The best animated movie I’ve ever seen. It looks beautiful, the plot mostly makes sense (more sense in the subtitled version than in the dubbed version), and it actually has some interesting ideas about identity and the nature of the self at its core. **Princess Mononoke** : Also astonishingly well drawn, well written, and well conceived. A fantasy with a strong ecological bent and a very strong moral stance. What was chiefly fascinating was the fact that, despite a huge amount of violence, blood, fighting, and destruction, there really aren’t any villains. Just two different groups both doing what they think is the right thing, and killing each other because of what boils down to a lack of communication. [sub]Soon we will be.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/7 "2002-06-18T07:47:28Z")
There’s plenty of adult-oriented animation on tv…South Park for example, there was also a movie based on it. Ditto Beavis and Butt-Head. In the realm of animated stuff that adults can enjoy, you have The Simpsons, King of the Hill, Futurama, Family Guy, Ren and Stimpy, and probably some others I’ve forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/8 "2002-06-18T08:10:22Z")
If you like anime, check out **Cowboy Beebop** , its fabulous. And there were six episodes of the **Clerks** animated series, all of them available on DVD, all of them hilarious, and not aimed at kids (despite the little morals at the end). Only two episodes were ever aired. Most definitely a series that went right over the heads of the viewer. [Bill turns on TV] [TV, showing the Clerks logo, it’s the first episode] Randall: Previously on Clerks… [TV cuts to a test pattern – get it, there is no previously on Clerks!] [Bill doesn’t get it, switches channels, never goes back] That happened in living rooms all across America. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/9 "2002-06-18T11:18:29Z")
I saw **Starchaser** many years ago, and immediately thought “Star Wars ripoff!” But wow, it’s such a darned GOOD Star Wars ripoff! It thoroughly entertained me, and I’ve never seen a movie quite like it. Though I guess Titan AE tried. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/10 "2002-06-18T14:36:45Z")
Animation has been non-kiddie for at least 60 years. Theatrical cartoons, such as those produced by Warner Bros., Disney, and others, were originally made to target an adult audience. (Mickey wasn’t always the little good guy we know him as today-take a look at him torturing those poor animals in _Steamboat Willie_!) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/11 "2002-06-18T14:39:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*There was an abominably bad French film in the seventies that was called **Fantastic Planet**. It was an animated sci-fi film, and was lauded as “visionary” and “masterful” by the sort of people who don’t like either science fiction or animation. \*\* They could be displaying the classic "I don’t get it… and it’s too different from my usual reference points… so it must mean it’s some _deep_ sh\*\* " syndrome. The thing is that this is sometimes true, but sometimes it just means the work in question is incomprehensible. > [@](#): > > _later on in the same article, on other films_ > \*\*but like so many animated features aimed at “adults,” the story is simply worthless. > \*\* Too often the creators thereof get caught up in the novelty or in the technicals, to the detriment of the story. Or, they get hung up on being “taken seriously” and bog down in attempts at “_deep_ sh\*\*” or make it the whole point to get an “R” rating for the sole sake of it. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/12 "2002-06-18T14:41:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weird\_AL\_Einstein \* > \*\*In the realm of animated stuff that adults can enjoy, you have The Simpsons, King of the Hill, Futurama, Family Guy, Ren and Stimpy, and probably some others I’ve forgotten. \*\* All of which, with the exception of _Ren and Stimpy_, were originally created for an adult audience. I say “originally” because though it premiered on a children’s network, _Ren and Stimpy_ is going to become part of TNN’s new adult animation block. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/13 "2002-06-18T15:21:14Z")
**Neon Genesis Evangelion, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Angel Sanctuary, Revolutionary Girl Utena,** and **Serial Experiments Lain** would top my list of favourites. I can’t imagine any of them being marketed to kids, at least not in North America. ---
**Author:** ![Kaspar\_Hauser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Kaspar\_Hauser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaspar_Hauser)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/14 "2002-06-18T17:34:29Z")
Surprisingly, no one’s mentioned Watership Down, and its even-more depressing follow-up The Plague Dogs. Not kids’ movies by any means. I don’t think they even bothered marketing them to kids. The original trailer on the Watership Down DVD contains some of the most horrifying and violent scenes from the movie. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/15 "2002-06-18T17:44:36Z")
Many of the Cartoon Network’s “Cartoon Cartoons!” (that means new, CN-produced cartoons) function very well at both levels. In particular: **Samurai Jack Courage, the Cowardly Dog Dexter’s Laboratory Power Puff Girls** And, to a lesser degree: **Johnny Bravo Ed, Edd & Eddy** I may get ripped for the Dexter and the Power Puff Girls, but the pop-culture references in both are fantastic (and both originated, at least in part, with Genndy Tartakovsky of Samurai Jack). ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/16 "2002-06-18T17:57:20Z")
Using Japanese Anime shouldn’t really count, their concept of animation is much different from that of those in the US. I’d say a good 90% of the tentacle rape anime is directed towards adults. There’s also a serie of videos called “The Spike and Mike Twisted Animated Shorts” I believe, which is a collection of various things they put together for their Sick and Twisted Cartoon Festival. If you can find it, get the DVD for **Rejected** , it’s funny as shit. And there’s also all the stuff on Adult Swim late night on Cartoon Network. Not to mention Dr. Katz from Comedy Central (even though that’s not really shown anymore). ---
**Author:** ![PolishSausage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@PolishSausage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PolishSausage)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/17 "2002-06-18T18:31:22Z")
Well, since the OP didn’t preclude anime I will suggest one. Ninja Scroll. A great deal less of “What the … huh?” I get when trying to understand plot lines in many animes. Couple that with a lot more “Good Lord!” (re: the fights) and “Pretty” (re: everything). ~t ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/18 "2002-06-18T20:40:33Z")
Yes, yes, keep the great ones coming! **Watership Down** , **Heavy Metal** **Akira** and **Ninja Scroll** I’ve seen. Very good…has there or will there ever be another animater big-screen movie for adults? (I think Princess had a limited theatre run…) Or has Disney and the rest pretty much enforced the idea of cartoons=kids? ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/19 "2002-06-19T00:48:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OxyMoron \* > \*\*Many of the Cartoon Network’s “Cartoon Cartoons!” (that means new, CN-produced cartoons) function very well at both levels. In particular: > > **Samurai Jack > Courage, the Cowardly Dog > Dexter’s Laboratory > Power Puff Girls** > > And, to a lesser degree: > > **Johnny Bravo > Ed, Edd & Eddy** > > I may get ripped for the Dexter and the Power Puff Girls, but the pop-culture references in both are fantastic (and both originated, at least in part, with Genndy Tartakovsky of Samurai Jack). \*\* You beat me to it, **Oxy**. I’ve long thought that _Dexter_ and _PPG_ had just as much appeal for college-age and older viewers. Not only because of the use of pop-culture references that really young viewers wouldn’t get (Dexter’s homage to _Speed Racer_ and PPG’s _Meet the Beat-Alls_), but because of the deliberate use of retro drawing and animation styles. Look at it this way, I’m 43, and I find a lot to enjoy about these shows. My daughter’s 17, and she finds a lot to enjoy about these shows. My son is 8, and he finds a lot to enjoy about these shows. I doubt we’d all reach a consensus over something like reheated _Huckleberry Hound_ episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588/20 "2002-06-19T04:21:32Z")
MTV had a series a few years back called _Liquid Televsion_. It was an anthology show of non-child oriented animation. Its two most famous features, _Beavis and Butt-Head_ and _Aeon Flux_ were spun off into their own series. There were two videotapes and a DVD collection of “greatest hits” from the series. And, dammit, when are we going to see _Duckman_ released on video or DVD? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-kiddie-animation/114588.md?page=2)