# Non-mammalian harems? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 19, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321 "2009-10-19T13:18:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321/1 "2009-10-19T13:18:43Z")
Certain mammals mate in the context of harems, in which a dominant male monopolizes most or all of the breeding females in the group. Examples include (off the top of my head) gorillas, elk, sea lions. Are there any birds that do this? Reptiles? Or, for that matter, do any non-mammals live in social groups in which this would be possible? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321/2 "2009-10-19T13:42:57Z")
Wikipedia’s article on [polygyny](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygyny#In_nature) lists a couple. That’s a good word to search on. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321/3 "2009-10-19T13:48:26Z")
Good suggestion, thanks. Plus, right after I hit “submit” on the OP, I thought “Duh, chickens.” ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321/4 "2009-10-19T14:07:06Z")
There’s a species of fish where there are a bunch of females in a group and just one male. When the male dies, one of the females becomes male and takes his place. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321/5 "2009-10-19T15:26:17Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Examples include (off the top of my head) gorillas, elk, sea lions. > > … Or, for that matter, do any non-mammals live in social groups in which this would be possible? You do realise that sea lions don’t live in social groups, right? Males stake out a territory on the breeding beach and essentially rape the females as soon as they give birth. There are plenty of birds and reptiles and even invertebrates that adopt the same strategy insofar as the males stake out a territory and have sex with all females within that territory. No social structure necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321/6 "2009-10-19T15:31:00Z")
I think peacocks have harems. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321/7 "2009-10-19T17:51:13Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > You do realise that sea lions don’t live in social groups, right? Males stake out a territory on the breeding beach and essentially rape the females as soon as they give birth. There are plenty of birds and reptiles and even invertebrates that adopt the same strategy insofar as the males stake out a territory and have sex with all females within that territory. No social structure necessary. Good point. I obviously didn’t think things through carefully before posting. Do most of these species have the dramatic body dimorphism we see in the mammals? ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321/8 "2009-10-19T17:52:14Z")
The dunnock, aka the hedge sparrow, is a case in point. While some male-female relationships are monogamous, the female often engages the services of two or three males. Also, the male sometimes forms relationships with two or more females. Not content with that, instances have been recorded wherein two or three males established relationships with three or more females. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321/9 "2009-10-19T18:15:02Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Are there any birds that do this? Although male-female pairs are the most common breeding system in birds, there are plenty of polygynous species. Examples in North America include Red-winged Blackbirds and Meadowlarks. Some species such as House Wrens may by monogamous or polygynous. Ostriches are also polygynous. The females in a group all lay their eggs in a communal nest, which is incubated by the male. Although much rarer, polyandry also occurs in some species. Among the best-known are some species of [jacanas.](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/6/l_016_04.html) Females, which are larger than males, defend territories and have harems of up to five males. Males do all the incubation and care of nestlings. Females will even “steal” males from neighboring females, destroying the eggs in a nest and then trying to recruit the male for her own harem. > [@](#): > > Reptiles? Offhand, I can’t think of any. > [@](#): > > Or, for that matter, do any non-mammals live in social groups in which this would be possible? As has been mentioned, this happens in some fish. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-mammalian-harems/514321/10 "2009-10-19T21:29:19Z")
The common side-blotched lizard has harems, sometimes. They have an interesting [rock-paper-scissors mating setup](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_side-blotched_lizard#Mating_strategy). The males are born with orange, blue or yellow throats, and each color follows a different strategy; the oranges keep harems.