# Non-Muslims are not allowed into Mecca: How do they check? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721 "2012-10-24T12:53:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/21 "2012-10-25T08:32:30Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > They could just check your junk to see if it’s been skinned. Thus verifying that you’re Muslim, Jewish, or American. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/22 "2012-10-25T11:30:53Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > They could just check your junk to see if it’s been skinned. That would disqualify at least half of all muslims. And a good portions of the other half as well, especially those in Central Asia and parts of the Far East. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/23 "2012-10-25T14:58:31Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > That would disqualify at least half of all muslims. And a good portions of the other half as well, especially those in Central Asia and parts of the Far East. It never occured to me before - what’s the rule about women in Mecca? I know in some mosques I visited, my wife had to go on the women’s side separated by a wall, in others she was allowed to wander the whole mosque with a head covering… But in some others. actual non-tourist worshippers, the women were kept separated by a wall. From news reports, I see it gets pretty crowed around the sacred site; is that a mixed crowd? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/24 "2012-10-25T15:38:27Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > It never occured to me before - what’s the rule about women in Mecca? I know in some mosques I visited, my wife had to go on the women’s side separated by a wall, in others she was allowed to wander the whole mosque with a head covering… But in some others. actual non-tourist worshippers, the women were kept separated by a wall. From news reports, I see it gets pretty crowed around the sacred site; is that a mixed crowd? Women pilgrims are required to have a chaperone in Mecca. I’m not 100% sure but I believe the visitors to the Ka’aba are segregated by gender. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/25 "2012-10-25T15:48:22Z")
Nm. Lots of people are hip to skinning. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/26 "2012-10-25T17:17:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Women pilgrims are required to have a chaperone in Mecca. I’m not 100% sure but I believe the visitors to the Ka’aba are segregated by gender. No to the later. It’s mixed around the Kaaba itself although the place does have segregated facilities. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/27 "2012-10-25T23:19:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Non-Muslims are not allowed into Mecca: How do they check? Do you know the secret handshake? ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/28 "2012-10-25T23:53:37Z")
Offer trays of bacon sandwiches as the passengers deplane and turn around those that take one? A special visa supported by the endorsment of an imam in good standing seems to be the real answer. I think there’s a quota system by country as well. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/29 "2012-10-26T00:20:10Z")
Can you go in the “off season”? Are there big discounts? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/30 "2012-10-26T00:31:52Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > I think there’s a quota system by country as well. Yes. And there’s also separate lists for first time pilgrims and returning pilgrims. (The people making their first visit get preference for available spots.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/31 "2012-10-26T00:36:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > They ask you to say “shibbolech”. As long as they don’t ask you to say parsley. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/32 "2012-10-26T00:46:20Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Can you go in the “off season”? Are there big discounts? Yes, it’d called Umrah when you do pilgrimage to mecca off season. There’s still a special visa required. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/33 "2012-10-26T02:06:16Z")
BTW, even if you are a Muslim and do not have said visa, you cannot enter. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/34 "2012-10-26T02:16:20Z")
I have a question which is not really related to this thread but since I have knowledgeable muslims like AK84 in it - when you pray towards the kaaba from somewhere a long way around the world, is there ever any “3d” praying - in the sense of pointing directly towards it rather than just in the compas direction? (So if one were on the precise opposite end of the globe, in other words, one would be pointed downwards and facing the ground). ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/35 "2012-10-26T02:31:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Women pilgrims are required to have a chaperone in Mecca. I’m not 100% sure but I believe the visitors to the Ka’aba are segregated by gender. I knew woman had to have their visa applications signed off on by there nearest male relative, but didn’t know they needed an actual chaperone for the trip. Does the chaperone have to be a male relative, or does the agency they book the trip with arrange one? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/36 "2012-10-26T09:40:50Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > I have a question which is not really related to this thread but since I have knowledgeable muslims like AK84 in it - when you pray towards the kaaba from somewhere a long way around the world, is there ever any “3d” praying - in the sense of pointing directly towards it rather than just in the compas direction? > > (So if one were on the precise opposite end of the globe, in other words, one would be pointed downwards and facing the ground). [Qibla.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/37 "2012-10-26T10:18:35Z")
The visas mentioned above are referring to the major and minor pilgrimages, right? What about if a Muslim who happens to be resident in that province needs to enter Mecca for something mundane? Does the Saudi Arabian national identification card (for Saudi nationals) or the Saudi equivalent of an Alien Registration Card (for foreigners) have an entry indicating one’s religion? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/38 "2012-10-26T11:42:55Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The visas mentioned above are referring to the major and minor pilgrimages, right? What about if a Muslim who happens to be resident in that province needs to enter Mecca for something mundane? Does the Saudi Arabian national identification card (for Saudi nationals) or the Saudi equivalent of an Alien Registration Card (for foreigners) have an entry indicating one’s religion? When my family was based in Saudi Arabia (in Tabuk) as part of the Pakistani Army forces there, we went on several minor pilgrimages (“Umrah”). IIRC, the procedure was to apply for permission before hand, which was given fairly easily. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/39 "2012-10-26T13:32:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Women pilgrims are required to have a chaperone in Mecca. I’m not 100% sure but I believe the visitors to the Ka’aba are segregated by gender. Are you quite sure about this? I’ve got a National Geographic DVD about the _hajj_. One of the stories they follow is an American Muslim woman who makes the Pilgrimage. They do not show a chaperone with her. That might be selective editing, but she appears alone in all shots, and she remarks at one point that people keep coming up to her and asking her if she is Muslim\*, and that she has to be Muslim in order to be where she is. I doubt if they’d do that if she was obviously accompanied. \*The woman is a very Anglo-looking blonde-haired individual, who does look very much out of place among people you’d think more ethnically appropriate as Muslims – even to iother Muslims, obviously. She is a convert. Of course, she’d have to establish her religion even to get into the city, but the people asking the question were clearly not thinking too critically at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/40 "2012-10-26T14:09:54Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > We already know that Jews can’t be ninjas … He/you must not of heard of the [Sicarii](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicarii) (i.e., The Hidden Daggers), who were pretty well feared, requiring Roman legions to stamp them out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721.md?page=3)