# Non-Muslims are not allowed into Mecca: How do they check? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721 "2012-10-24T12:53:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/41 "2012-10-26T14:53:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > When my family was based in Saudi Arabia (in Tabuk) as part of the Pakistani Army forces there, we went on several minor pilgrimages (“Umrah”). IIRC, the procedure was to apply for permission before hand, which was given fairly easily. I’m not asking about the pilgrimages. Say someone happens to have a cousin who resides in the restricted part of Mecca and that cousing is going to have a wedding in that part of te city. What does the cousin who resides outside of Mecca need to do to attend the wedding? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/42 "2012-10-26T15:19:25Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m not asking about the pilgrimages. Say someone happens to have a cousin who resides in the restricted part of Mecca and that cousing is going to have a wedding in that part of te city. What does the cousin who resides outside of Mecca need to do to attend the wedding? Not all of Mecca is restricted. Also, the municipal boundaries are somewhat different from old city boundaries and it is the old city where restrictions apply, Most of the population lives outside the old city. By old city I mean the Kaaba and it’s immidiet surrounding not the old Ottoman city. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/43 "2012-10-26T15:33:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Not all of Mecca is restricted. Also, the municipal boundaries are somewhat different from old city boundaries and it is the old city where restrictions apply, Most of the population lives outside the old city. > By old city I mean the Kaaba and it’s immidiet surrounding not the old Ottoman city. I know not all of the city is restricted. I specifically asked about a situation wherein a non-pilgrimage trip for a Muslim would be required. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/44 "2012-10-26T15:36:42Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I know not all of the city is restricted. I specifically asked about a situation wherein a non-pilgrimage trip for a Muslim would be required. Really cannot see why a non Saudi would have reason to go to Haram al Sharjf ( the restricted part of Mecca) unless it’s for pilgrimage. There literally is nothing else there. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/45 "2012-10-26T15:39:35Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Do you know the secret handshake? Is the password al-swordfish ? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/46 "2012-10-26T15:40:16Z")
How about if that non-Saudi happens to have a cousing who resides in the restricted part of the city and the resident cousin will have a wedding at home? Are there no homes whatsoever in the restricted part? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/47 "2012-10-26T15:52:37Z")
_Addendum_: What about Medina? Are there any restrictions there? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/48 "2012-10-26T16:51:11Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Not all of Mecca is restricted. Also, the municipal boundaries are somewhat different from old city boundaries and it is the old city where restrictions apply, Most of the population lives outside the old city. My understanding was that the entire city of Mecca is restricted and the restricted area extends several miles outside of the city. I’ve also read that the city of Medina is entirely in the restricted area but some suburbs of Medina are outside of it. Mecca and Medina are substantial cities. Mecca’s population is over two million and Medina’s over a million. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/49 "2012-10-26T16:57:53Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Are you quite sure about this? I’ve got a National Geographic DVD about the _hajj_. One of the stories they follow is an American Muslim woman who makes the Pilgrimage. They do not show a chaperone with her. That might be selective editing, but she appears alone in all shots, and she remarks at one point that people keep coming up to her and asking her if she is Muslim\*, and that she has to be Muslim in order to be where she is. I doubt if they’d do that if she was obviously accompanied. I’ll work on digging up an official cite (the first hit I got on goggle was my post in this thread). But I did find this [article](http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE89102820121002) about a current diplomatic incident between Saudi Arabia and Nigeria: > [@](#): > > Nigeria has resumed flights to Saudi Arabia for the annual haj pilgrimage, ending a diplomatic row over the detention of hundreds of female pilgrims for arriving unaccompanied by men, the country’s haj commission said on Tuesday. > > Saudi authorities have deported more than 600 female Nigerian pilgrims and detained hundreds for trying to visit the Islamic holy city of Mecca without male relatives. Nigeria suspended flights to Saudi last week. > > “Since the resumption of flights … on Sunday a total of 8 flights have been operated conveying 3,786 pilgrims to the holy land,” the Hajj Commission of Nigeria said in a statement. > > “This success was recorded largely as a result of the directive given to state pilgrims’ welfare boards, agencies, to ensure that only female pilgrims that have the appropriate Muharram (male companion) are boarded.” This [article](http://saharareporters.com/news-page/another-44-muslim-women-deported-saudis-dispute-over-chaperones?page=1) quotes a Saudi government official who says the Mecca visas say on them that women must have _“a male guardian accompanying them, either a brother, a husband, or another relative”_. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/50 "2012-10-26T21:52:41Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Is the password al-swordfish ? Meet me down at the viaduct & I’ll tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/51 "2012-10-27T01:31:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ll work on digging up an official cite (the first hit I got on goggle was my post in this thread). > > But I did find this [article](http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE89102820121002) about a current diplomatic incident between Saudi Arabia and Nigeria:This [article](http://saharareporters.com/news-page/another-44-muslim-women-deported-saudis-dispute-over-chaperones?page=1) quotes a Saudi government official who says the Mecca visas say on them that women must have _“a male guardian accompanying them, either a brother, a husband, or another relative”_. A friend of mine managed it because she booked her trip through a travel agent that specalised in Hajj tours. Basically what ended up happening is that she and plenty of other single/unaccompanied women were escorted by an iman (or if not an iman, some religious dude - I am not certain of terminology). So it can definitely be done and knowing Nigeria what has probably happened is the person that was supposed to be accompanying these women either didn’t turn up or never even existed. Due to some things I have been told, I will not express my opinion about the sense in impoverished nigerians essentially blowing their life savings on an unsuccesful attempt to visit a sandpit. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/52 "2012-10-27T02:14:06Z")
Curious that the masjid mosque thing is in a part of city called “al haram” – is _haram_ not the word they use in shari’a to denote something you must not do? The exact opposite of _halal_ (kosher). ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/53 "2012-10-27T02:22:39Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Due to some things I have been told, I will not express my opinion about the sense in impoverished nigerians essentially blowing their life savings on an unsuccesful attempt to visit a sandpit. Uhhhh…you do realize everyone in Nigeria is not impoverished, right? Between oil, manufacturing and entertainment, Nigeria is one of the hottest growth centers in a rapidly growing region, and there are more than enough multi-millionaires (not to mention plain old middle class people) to pack the planes to capacity. In Northern Cameroon, which would be much more impoverished than your average Nigerian city, the dusty regional airports would open up for charters to Mecca during the season. Successful business people and community leaders would try to get out there once. At the very least, it makes for a nice change from visiting Paris all the time. It seems like a pretty crazy experience. Here you are, thrown in with this massive crowd of people from Toronto to Indonesia, all jumbled together in this pretty surreal setting. Even without the religious aspect, it seems pretty worth the cash for the life experience. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/54 "2012-10-27T02:28:43Z")
Oh I totally get the appeal of the Hajj from a secular/unique experience POV, and indeed I plan to go some day despite despising religion, with this connivance of some people I know (kept vague for obv reasons). But the poor women who were sleeping in an airport terminal for days were probably impoverished - otherwise why would they have been sitting in an airport terminal for days? It’s either that or arab anti-black racism, which I admit is huge in Saudi, but I choose to hope (perhaps foolishly) that they are not racist towards people doing the hajj. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/55 "2012-10-27T03:10:21Z")
Eh, I’d imagine nigerian women are pretty blasé about travel delays. It’s all a part of the adventure. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/56 "2012-10-27T03:28:44Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > I have a question which is not really related to this thread but since I have knowledgeable muslims like AK84 in it - when you pray towards the kaaba from somewhere a long way around the world, is there ever any “3d” praying - in the sense of pointing directly towards it rather than just in the compas direction? > > (So if one were on the precise opposite end of the globe, in other words, one would be pointed downwards and facing the ground). > **[A question about the direction of prayer in Islam](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=638491)** > > I’ve read that when Muslims pray they face the direction of Mecca. One item said that mosques have a “sign”(for lack of a better word on my part) that lets worshippers know what direction Mecca is. I would assume the direction differs depending on... ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/57 "2012-10-27T03:51:10Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Wikipedia mentions that Malcolm X was detained when he tried to go on _hadj_, at the time they may not have required a special visa, or maybe he couldn’t get one from a Nation of Islam mosque. At any rate, he didn’t speak or understand Arabic, nor could he quote the Koran. He did get in eventually, a member of the royal family had met him in the US, spoken with him, and was impressed by what Malcolm X had to say, and went to vouch for him. So at any given time, the rules can be a little more lax. The detail you mentioned comes from Malcolm X’s autobiography. Manning Marable describes it this way in his recent biography: pilgrims had to establish their religious credentials at a “Hajj Court.” Malcolm X arrived in Jeddah on a Friday, when the court was closed, and he couldn’t secure an appearance the next day. He got in touch with the son of an Egyptian diplomat he knew. The diplomat got him an appointment at the court and vouched for him, and he was allowed to go to Mecca. Shortly thereafter he became a state guest. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/58 "2012-10-27T03:57:38Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Due to some things I have been told, I will not express my opinion about the sense in impoverished nigerians essentially blowing their life savings on an unsuccesful attempt to visit a sandpit. MODERATOR OFFICIAL WARNING. **Simple Linctus**. Keep your political opinions out of General Questions. **samclem** , moderator ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/59 "2012-10-27T04:12:25Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Oh I totally get the appeal of the Hajj from a secular/unique experience POV, and indeed I plan to go some day despite despising religion, with this connivance of some people I know (kept vague for obv reasons). That really doesn’t strike me as such a good idea nor even such an easy thing to pull off today. > [@](#): > > But the poor women who were sleeping in an airport terminal for days were probably impoverished - otherwise why would they have been sitting in an airport terminal for days? It’s either that or arab anti-black racism, which I admit is huge in Saudi, but I choose to hope (perhaps foolishly) that they are not racist towards people doing the hajj. Or it could be because they haven’t cleared through immigration yet and thus unable to head for a hotel no matter how poor or rich they may be. The various news reports I’ve seen on the issue indicate it’s simply confusion about the travel arrangements required for the pilgrimage. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721/60 "2012-10-27T14:25:20Z")
A friend of mine did the Hajj; we were working together in Saudi and he had converted. He said the atmosphere there was much more liberal, compared to daily life in Saudi. Woman and men could speak with each other, of course there was still no alcohol, the cities were much cleaner than in the rest of Saudi, it was very busy and multi-ethnic without any of the negative attitudes towards the peoples from India, Pakistan, Nepal, the Philippines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-muslims-are-not-allowed-into-mecca-how-do-they-check/638721.md?page=4)