# Non-Parent Dopers: What Advice Do You Have for Parents? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902 "2013-10-22T02:48:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/61 "2013-10-22T21:02:28Z")
Squealing? Are we at Disneyland, the beach, the play pit at McD’s, etc- then yes, it’s music to my ears (well, as long as I can move away or something to modulate the volume)… Are we on a airplane or in a restaurant with tablecloths and wait service? Then no, it’s incredibly irritating and puts my teeth on edge. How do you stop your precious from squealing in delight at a upscale restaurant? By not bringing them there until they are old enough to not do it. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/62 "2013-10-22T21:11:57Z")
Don’t shake the baby, ever, under any circumstances. I’m just kidding. Shake him all you want. It’s your baby! ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/63 "2013-10-22T21:18:42Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Monstro’s niece is probably black. Some black people get dry skin, and refer to it as “ashy” because their skin does indeed look like it’s covered in ash. So there are really people who haven’t spent enough time around black people to know what “ashy” means? I had a black teammate explain it to me in middle school when I asked him why he lotioned himself up after practice every day. I suspect white people are perpetually ashy, but we just don’t have enough contrast for it to show. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/64 "2013-10-22T21:25:59Z")
Cat Whisperer: > [@](#): > > you don’t know what it’s like to be childfree in a Cult of the Child world, either. Excuse me? Reproduction is a biological imperative of every living organism that has ever existed, and the people who go with it rather than fight it to are a “Cult”? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/65 "2013-10-22T21:45:15Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Cat Whisperer: > > Excuse me? Reproduction is a biological imperative of every living organism that has ever existed, and the people who go with it rather than fight it to are a “Cult”? Heh, so “cult” is a bit much, but parents often pester people who don’t want children despite how clearly, forcefully or repeatedly we state we don’t want any. It’s progressed from “Oh, you’ll want them when you get older” to “You’ll want them when you get married” to “Oh, well stay married a little longer” to “Hey, daylight’s running out on your good babymaking years.” Soon it’ll be “You can still adopt!” Motherfuckers, no means no. I get that most folk want children, and that whole wanting of children thing has kept us from going extinct (that and lack of contraception), but for the love of Dog, if someone doesn’t want a child, shut the holy hell up about it! Not accusing you or anyone here of doing this, but hot damn, do non-parents have to sit through this barrage with alarming frequency. I’m not CatWhisperer and she can speak for herself, but it does get pretty tiresome having to deal with the mommy brigade who refuses to acknowledge your life’s choices. I complain on message boards about screaming kids on airplanes as much as the next person, but I’ve never grilled anyone about their decision to have children. Not what I would have done, but god for them. Yet for some reason entirely too many parents respond to “I don’t want kids” with shock, horror and bargaining (as if they’re going to talk a grown ass woman out of something she’s been certain of her entire life) rather than “Okay.” ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/66 "2013-10-22T21:58:46Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Heh, so “cult” is a bit much, but parents often pester people who don’t want children despite how clearly, forcefully or repeatedly we state we don’t want any. It’s progressed from “Oh, you’ll want them when you get older” to “You’ll want them when you get married” to “Oh, well stay married a little longer” to “Hey, daylight’s running out on your good babymaking years.” Soon it’ll be “You can still adopt!” Motherfuckers, no means no. I get that most folk want children, and that whole wanting of children thing has kept us from going extinct (that and lack of contraception), but for the love of Dog, if someone doesn’t want a child, shut the holy hell up about it! This. Times 10,000. I’m a 35 year old woman. The kind of age everyone keeps going on about how I should or will be wanting children. I don’t. Fuck the biological imperative. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/67 "2013-10-22T21:59:56Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Monstro’s niece is probably black. Some black people get dry skin, and refer to it as “ashy” because their skin does indeed look like it’s covered in ash. > [@bump](#): > > So there are really people who haven’t spent enough time around black people to know what “ashy” means? I had a black teammate explain it to me in middle school when I asked him why he lotioned himself up after practice every day. > > I suspect white people are perpetually ashy, but we just don’t have enough contrast for it to show. That’d be me on two counts, not being around many black people, and prolly covered in flaky dry skin and not knowing it. I wish I had occasion to be around more black people. I don’t know how to remedy that situation. According to the 2010 census, the city where I live is 46% Hispanic, 7% black, and the balance is other racial/ethnic backgrounds including non-Hispanic whites (or Anglos). ---
**Author:** ![HardlySanguine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HardlySanguine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HardlySanguine)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/68 "2013-10-22T22:01:31Z")
> [@bump](#): > > So there are really people who haven’t spent enough time around black people to know what “ashy” means? I had a black teammate explain it to me in middle school when I asked him why he lotioned himself up after practice every day. First time I’ve heard of the phenomenon, and the term. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/69 "2013-10-22T22:35:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > So there are really people who haven’t spent enough time around black people to know what “ashy” means? I had a black teammate explain it to me in middle school when I asked him why he lotioned himself up after practice every day. > > **I suspect white people are perpetually ashy, but we just don’t have enough contrast for it to show**. As proof, I offer my own appendages. I am as white as the new-driven snow, and my skin is quite dry, and yep - often ashy. I don’t know if other people could tell much, but I can sure see it, especially along my forearms and shins. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/70 "2013-10-22T22:39:38Z")
> [@bump](#): > > So there are really people who haven’t spent enough time around black people to know what “ashy” means? I had a black teammate explain it to me in middle school when I asked him why he lotioned himself up after practice every day. I love seeing the benefits of school desegregation. 🙂 > [@](#): > > I suspect white people are perpetually ashy, but we just don’t have enough contrast for it to show. I suspect so too. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/71 "2013-10-22T22:54:15Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Heh, so “cult” is a bit much, but parents often pester people who don’t want children despite how clearly, forcefully or repeatedly we state we don’t want any. It’s progressed from “Oh, you’ll want them when you get older” to “You’ll want them when you get married” to “Oh, well stay married a little longer” to “Hey, daylight’s running out on your good babymaking years.” Soon it’ll be “You can still adopt!” Motherfuckers, no means no. I get that most folk want children, and that whole wanting of children thing has kept us from going extinct (that and lack of contraception), but for the love of Dog, if someone doesn’t want a child, shut the holy hell up about it! > > Not accusing you or anyone here of doing this, but hot damn, do non-parents have to sit through this barrage with alarming frequency. > > I’m not CatWhisperer and she can speak for herself, but it does get pretty tiresome having to deal with the mommy brigade who refuses to acknowledge your life’s choices. I complain on message boards about screaming kids on airplanes as much as the next person, but I’ve never grilled anyone about their decision to have children. Not what I would have done, but god for them. Yet for some reason entirely too many parents respond to “I don’t want kids” with shock, horror and bargaining (as if they’re going tIo talk a grown ass woman out of something she’s been certain of her entire life) rather than “Okay.” It stings when people (esp. women) act as if liking babies and kids is a requirement for being a real woman. No one assumes guys want to hear about the travails of potty-training, but because I’m a woman, I’m naturally supposed to be into this kind of thing (in addition to weddings, cosmetics, and shoes). Lately I’ve been getting the “Don’t you want to have children?!” questions at work, because now I’m the only person on my floor who doesn’t have kids or isn’t trying to have them. It’s awkward knowing that everyone thinks you’re “doing it wrong”, even if you know you’re just living life on your own terms. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/72 "2013-10-22T22:56:56Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > (middle aged people know as much about being elderly as non-parents know about being a parent). That’s how I read it as well. That said, as a middle-aged guy I’ve come to realize most people my age are still children only with better jobs, more responsibilities, and slower metabolisms–we still have no clue what life is about or how to shape children into citizens. I’m totally open to weighing insights from people younger than me because I’ve got at least 7 more years to go with this parenting gig and I’m increasingly less aware of what the kids are going through with their peers. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > The parents who have come in to threadshit seem to be taking it as personal insults, though, and I’m not sure why. Kids make you tired and surly. Pay it no mind, a parent is only as sane as their nuttiest kid. ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/73 "2013-10-22T23:11:59Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It stings when people (esp. women) act as if liking babies and kids is a requirement for being a real woman. No one assumes guys want to hear about the travails of potty-training, but because I’m a woman, I’m naturally supposed to be into this kind of thing (in addition to weddings, cosmetics, and shoes). > > Lately I’ve been getting the “Don’t you want to have children?!” questions at work, because now I’m the only person on my floor who doesn’t have kids or isn’t trying to have them. It’s awkward knowing that everyone thinks you’re “doing it wrong”, even if you know you’re just living life on your own terms. Blow them off, that’s just a case of misery loves company. Parenting is hard and it’s ceaseless, and no one should take it on unless 100% certain. Ask them what they would do if the child free weren’t there to fill in when their kids are sick, remind them who picks up the slack at work and maybe they’ll cut it out. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/74 "2013-10-22T23:19:03Z")
Tell bitches who keep pestering you about kids that you know this lady on a message board who has 3 kids, so I took up your quota. Sorry, nothing you can do about it. As for non-parents offering parenting advice: Eh, whatever. Yes, it’s pretty much stuff I already know, but if it makes people feel better to offer advice, then they should go right ahead. It’s no skin off my back. One thing I’ve learned as a parent is that you can’t let stupid bullshit get under your skin or you’ll be perpetually angry, because the world in general and parenting specifically are full of a lot of stupid bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/75 "2013-10-22T23:50:16Z")
You think your kid is awesome and your smart phone is awesome. Only one of them is going to attempt to grow up to be a productive member of society. Choose which to pay attention to and which to neglect carefully. Me, I’d pick the one that’s not going to shame me by climbing into a claw machine while I’m absorbed with the other. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/76 "2013-10-22T23:54:44Z")
More than once, I told people who asked me why I didn’t want to have children, “What for? So I can be as miserable as you?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/77 "2013-10-23T01:15:15Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You aren’t qualified to speak for the general public. You aren’t even qualified to speak for all other people, like me, without kids and with no desire for kids. My apologies; I thought it was understood that my opinions in this thread were just that, my opinions. > [@cmkeller](#): > > Cat Whisperer: > > Excuse me? Reproduction is a biological imperative of every living organism that has ever existed, and the people who go with it rather than fight it to are a “Cult”? There are multiple aspects to the Cult of the Child attitude; one is marketing to parents which is the easiest sell ever - everything everywhere is geared to families/children/parents. We are bombarded daily with ads, articles, movies, tv shows, marketing campaigns, special deals, everything aimed at parents and children. “Family friendly” and “Child friendly” are a very common marketing strategy. A second aspect is called symbolic annihilation. Childless and childfree people are almost completely absent from media - tv, movies, magazines, articles, etc. When childless and childfree people aren’t completely absent, they’re trivialized - for example, a woman thinks she doesn’t want kids, but is “fixed” by finally meeting the right guy and changes her mind. Choosing not to have children is not a valid life choice in this trivialized version of womanhood. People who don’t have kids are actually a fairly large group to be almost completely ignored by the media - roughly 20% of Americans aged 40-44 don’t have kids. A third aspect of it is the lack of freedom to be your true self when you aren’t doing what the common biological imperative prompts other people to do. This takes on multiple forms - one is as discussed here, the pressure from outsiders to attempt to pressure you about a very personal decision that is truly none of their business. Another form it takes is not feeling free to talk about your lack of having reproduced, and not feeling free to talk about how you really feel about children and parents. Maybe “Cult of the Child” is too strong a term; maybe we could call it, “People Who Think Reproducing Is The Only Valid Choice” (PWTRITOVC for short). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/78 "2013-10-23T03:39:42Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It stings when people (esp. women) act as if liking babies and kids is a requirement for being a real woman. It’s \*always \*women. I’ve had men be surprised, or when dating in the past, have at times seen the light turn red in his eyes when it comes out that children ain’t happenin’, but I’ve never gotten the “Shit out babies or turn in your uterus” bit from a man. I suppose there are Tucker Carlson types who think women who don’t want children are too busy going to the gym, or whatever his idiotic criticism was, but thankfully those people are trapped in talk radio and I’ve never encountered one in the wild. Now to be fair, it’s not like I can’t go outside without being hounded into reproducing; for one, it’s not like I introduce myself with “Hey, I’m MOL and I don’t want babies,” and for another, when it does come up a lot of folks are decent about it, but a disturbing many feel the need to badger me about my choices, and those who do have always, \*always \*been women. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Maybe “Cult of the Child” is too strong a term; maybe we could call it, “People Who Think Reproducing Is The Only Valid Choice” (PWTRITOVC for short). 🙂 Only Valid Alternative, or OVA? Hmm, we’ll work on that acronym. I’ll put it on the agenda for next week’s meeting. ---
**Author:** ![48Willys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/db5fbb/32.png) [@48Willys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/48Willys)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/79 "2013-10-23T07:40:31Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That’s what I was going to say - a parent’s job is raising functional, independent adults. If your child is so broken that they are never able to be independent, I don’t think you’ve done your job as an adult human raising a juvenile one. > > Make your ankle-biters STFU and quit bothering the rest of us is great advice; what’s wrong with that? > I’m tired of this old meme from parents; no, I haven’t raised kids. No, I don’t know what it’s like. I will not attempt to tell anyone how to raise kids, but I would like some respect going the other way; you don’t know what it’s like to be childfree in a Cult of the Child world, either. > > This thread was created specifically for people without children to give their perspective to people with children. I’m not going to try to give advice on how to raise children, since I haven’t done it. I am completely qualified to give advice on how your children are received by the general public, though, which is what I assumed this thread was meant to be. The parents who have come in to threadshit seem to be taking it as personal insults, though, and I’m not sure why. I appreciate the summery of the reason for this thread. This is what I wanted to know when I posted “I am unsure as to why we are asking folks with NO experience about child rearing.” Thanks for addressing this. You were once a child and as such interacted with other children (I hope). You at least know what you think of your childhood. Thus, you are qualified to comment on that! I for one am NOT the least bit offended nor do I feel insulted at anything posted thus far on this thread. As far as showing respect, I hope that my respect for you-all is coming across strongly. I lurked for a long time before posting, partly to see if this was a group that I could relate to and that I could learn from. I hope that I have things that I can share that helps others on this site. I am unsure what I posted you took as “threadshitting”. I am sorry that it offended you. My aunt Margaret (aged 94) is one of those that chose to be childless. We have had some discussions about how society as a whole does not understand, nor respect her choice to not have children. I can see what she (and perhaps, you) experience as an outsider in a child-centric society. This is a great thread. There are many points that I agree fully with. There are some I do not understand. These give me something to ponder on. I will gain insight from them. Thanks all, 48. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902/80 "2013-10-23T13:30:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Are your own parents critical of or supportive of your parenting style? They never interfered or offered opinions one way or the other. My parenting style is a lot like theirs was: leave the kids with enough room to make their own mistakes and learn from them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-parent-dopers-what-advice-do-you-have-for-parents/671902.md?page=5)