# Non-pilots: Look! Up in the sky! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 27, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296 "2011-08-27T16:15:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/1 "2011-08-27T16:15:14Z")
I’m watching an aviation video, and there’s a shot of a [Skyhawk](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_172) flying along. I wondered: When non-pilots see a General Aviation aircraft (e.g., Cessna, Beechcraft, Mooney, Piper, et al.), what do they think? Do you imagine the pilot? What does he or she look like in your mind’s eye? Do you wish you were up there, instead of stopped in traffic on the freeway? Or do you think, ‘Guy’s obviously nuts. You’ll never get _me_ in one of those things!’? Do you wonder where the plane is going, and where it’s been? Obviously, these questions are for non-pilots who notice the planes and have thoughts about them. A couple of other things: Airplanes have rivets; unlike cars, which tend to have smooth skins. Instrument panels are a little more crowded than the ones in the ol’ Family Truckster. If you’ve been near a ‘little airplane’, have you noticed those, and what were your impressions? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/2 "2011-08-27T17:08:26Z")
I’m a non-pilot (and I was so close to finally taking courses this summer). I think, “lucky bastards.” As for the rivets… I’m an automotive body-in-white engineer. I think that visible rivets on a consumer product (such as a Cessna 172 as single example) is bad product design (but perhaps not bad engineering). If I ever leave my job at my large company for an aircraft company, maybe I can make things look better.\* \*Or maybe not. It’s a popular look these days to have fake rivets around fuel-filler openings and on rear quarter-panels, so maybe rivets are what airplane consumers expect? I’m an engineer; not a marketing person. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/3 "2011-08-27T17:25:51Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I think that visible rivets on a consumer product… is bad product design (but perhaps not bad engineering). Interesting. I see it as a good product design. While styling is an important factor for a consumer product, the costs have to be considered as well. Flush rivets could be used, and any imperfections can be filled. But the monetary cost would be greater and such things as filler add weight. From a design standpoint, I think it’s not worth a one-knot increase in speed. Speaking of styling, Cessna introduced the ‘Omni-Vision’ rear windows on its airplanes in the early-1960s. This increased visibility (some argue that it doesn’t, but I’ve used the rear windows to avoid traffic), but cost airspeed. In the 1970s they extended the tail strake nearly to the rear window. This did little or nothing aerodynamically, and it added a weight penalty; but it looked cool. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/4 "2011-08-27T20:19:03Z")
Awhile back I got Mrs. J. a small plane ride with a flight instructor for her birthday, with the idea that she might like to get flying lessons. And I’ve thought about it vaguely myself (I once interviewed for a job with a pathology group which had a couple of members who regularly flew between isolated outposts, and who actually encouraged the idea of newcomers learning to fly. Maybe this would’ve been more appealing if they hadn’t told me about a former group member who walked into a propeller one day and came away a bit worse for wear). I don’t think much these days when I see a small plane overhead, except to occasionally have a passing thought along the lines of “hope they get that thing down in one piece.” _Oh, no you’ll never get me up in one of these again `Cos what goes up must come Down, down, down, down, down Down, down, down, down, down_ - 10cc ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/5 "2011-08-27T20:35:03Z")
Well, I can give a couple of examples from as recently as today. This morning, about 5:30 a.m. My blissful slumber was rudely shattered by a crop duster working a nearby field and making his turns about ten feet over my house :dubious: Horrible racket…sounded like what I always imagined the Battle of Britain must have. Sleep was banished completely and suddenly and I nearly rolled off the bed. Yes, I know, early morning is the most appropriate time for that work and after all these years in farm country I oughta be used to it. Yes, I did think of the pilot, and what I was thinking is unprintable in a nice forum like this one. Then, about mid-morning, I was working outside, a light plane was flying overhead, slowly and at fairly low altitude when the engine suddenly began missing and backfiring. That got my attention, I wasn’t thinking so much of the pilot as what I was going to do if it fell out of the sky into my back forty. Didn’t happen…he finally throttled up and flew on to the southeast. Interesting that you should ask…I appear to be having a bad day with airplanes. SS ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/6 "2011-08-27T20:36:55Z")
I’m an aviation person, but not a pilot. Funny enough, I have no particular interest in general aviation - I might consider one day learning to fly, but it would be for academic purposes, but I’m not drawn to GA planes. Commercial aviation, however, is a whole other thing…I’m fascinated by commercial planes, both as a passenger and (in theory) as a pilot. So while I barely glance up when a Cessna flies over, I’ll track a Dash-8 or a B777 or whatever for as long as it’s in sight. I think rivets look cool, but haven’t really thought about it more than that before. As long as they hold together and are _safe_, that’s what matters to me. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/7 "2011-08-27T20:41:10Z")
I’ve been up as a passenger in small GA aircraft many times (as I recall, mostly Cessna 150s and 172s). And yes, many times, I have, somewhat enviously, noticed aircraft in the sky while sitting in traffic. Never thought much about the rivets, but I have seen the instrument panels of these aircraft. They’re crowded, but I know that the instruments are there for a reason. Admittedly, I’m unsure of what some of them are for, but I can spot (and understand) the altimeter, the compass, and the artificial horizon; and the radio is easy enough. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/8 "2011-08-27T21:02:07Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > Well, I can give a couple of examples from as recently as today. This morning, about 5:30 a.m. My blissful slumber was rudely shattered by a crop duster working a nearby field and making his turns about ten feet over my house :dubious: I used to be awakened weekend mornings by the whoosh of burners on hot air balloons that were landing in a field near the house. The field hasn’t existed since sometime in the '80s, and the balloons (assuming people still fly them there) land somewhere else. > [@Spoons](#): > > I’m unsure of what some of them are for… [This may help](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_instruments). [This is how they’re making them nowadays](http://www.sunstateaviation.com/G1000-panel-hi-res.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/9 "2011-08-27T21:08:10Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Funny enough, I have no particular interest in general aviation… I’m not drawn to GA planes. I’m the opposite. I know how to fly GA airplanes. (Well, _knew_. I’ll remedy that soon.) Dad had a couple of Cessnas. I like the idea that with a private plane, one can hop in and take a trip on a whim. My log book contains such entries as ‘Flew to California City for burgers.’ Being told when and where to fly is less interesting. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/10 "2011-08-27T23:28:35Z")
Wistful … my first flight was at 3 days old, being brought home from the hospital in Rochester to the family home in Perry NY. Mom fed me just as we hit a patch of turbulence and I yacked used milk all over the cockpit of the piper. Dad replaced it with a Comanche because with another kid he ‘needed a bigger plane’ 😃 For years I had wanted to take lessons, both Mom and Dad had their licenses until they gave them up voluntarily when they hit their upper 50s. Unfortunately by the time Dad died and I had the money for lessons, I developed a heart condition so I can’t take lessons and get licensed. So, I see small planes in the air and wist for an alternate world where I could get licensed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/11 "2011-08-27T23:41:48Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > So, I see small planes in the air and wist for an alternate world where I could get licensed. [Sport Pilot License](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_United_States#Sport_pilot) [Recreational Pilot License](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_United_States#Recreational_pilot) The Sport Pilot License requires that you must not have been rejected for your last Airmans Medical Certificate. Your heart condition would disqualify you. BUT… If you’ve never been rejected for a medical certificate, then you’re good under the rules. > [@](#): > > [The FAA’s thinking behind the Rule:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_Pilot_Catch_22#An_example_of_the_Sport_Pilot_Catch_22) If the pilot’s potentially disqualifying medical condition is unknown (no application for a medical certificate has been made and rejected), then the pilot is OK to fly as a Sport Pilot. But once the condition becomes known, the FAA has no choice but to deny flying privileges. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/12 "2011-08-27T23:44:57Z")
I can’t say I ever notice anything like that. If I think about it at all, I think, “must be an expensive hobby.” I’m sure it’s pretty fun for those who are into it though. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/13 "2011-08-28T00:22:24Z")
I currently work at a site on the approach path to the airport, so passenger jets flying overhead has become old hat. But the other day I noticed something a little different: it was this **huge** widebody, four engine plane, painted dark grey and with it’s landing gear down and what looked like about twelve wheels on each assembly. I speculate that it was a C-5 Galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/14 "2011-08-28T01:21:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Sport Pilot License](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_United_States#Sport_pilot) > [Recreational Pilot License](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_United_States#Recreational_pilot) > > The Sport Pilot License requires that you must not have been rejected for your last Airmans Medical Certificate. Your heart condition would disqualify you. BUT… If you’ve never been rejected for a medical certificate, then you’re good under the rules. I may have never been rejected, but in good conscience I can not lie. If it was something like having something fairly innocuous that is one thing, but a heart condition is another thing. I can’t pass the EKG. Driving a car is one thing but you can wipe out a lot of people with even a small plane. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/15 "2011-08-28T01:25:52Z")
Just stating the legal options. Not saying it’s a good idea. As far as wiping out a lot of people, I think there is more potential with the car. Cars tend to operate where there are people around. Airplanes tend to operate over open areas. ---
**Author:** ![Marconi\_N.Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Marconi\_N.Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marconi_N.Cheese)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/16 "2011-08-28T02:46:23Z")
I’m thinking “Where did I put that damn laser pointer?” 😃 I would often heard a single small plane flying at night. This is over many years and in many different places. I always thought they were carrying mail. It’s been a while since I heard one, I guess it all goes by jet now. I think the ultralights and experimentals would be a blast. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/17 "2011-08-28T03:46:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [This may help](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_instruments). > > [This is how they’re making them nowadays](http://www.sunstateaviation.com/G1000-panel-hi-res.jpg). Thanks, **Johnny**! It’s been a while since I’ve flown in a Cessna, but should I do so again, I’ll study your links. (And that second one–whew! I’ll need some explanation.) I like flying in small aircraft–any chance you might head up my way after you remedy your knowledge of GA aircraft? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/18 "2011-08-28T03:54:49Z")
It’s hard to believe that second link is a Skyhawk. Times change. Dad bought a six-year-old Skyhawk in 1976 for a little over $10,000. The one that glass panel belongs to is like $300,000. I’m watching a movie right now, but [here are some Garmin G1000 tutorials](http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=garmin+g1000+tutorial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8). If i ever get my own plane, I’ll try to come up. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/19 "2011-08-28T04:45:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > If i ever get my own plane, I’ll try to come up. 😉 Sounds good. You fly, and I’ll buy the beer afterward. Deal? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/20 "2011-08-28T06:39:28Z")
This will probably make you very happy…I see all pilots in my minds’ eye as an [X-Wing Fighter pilot](http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattandkristy/3080585977/), because that’s the oldest memory of “pilot” that I have 🙂 Of course, not commercial airliner pilots. I know what they look like, from my [second-oldest memory of “pilot”](http://images.starpulse.com/news/bloggers/6/blog_images/kareem-abdul-jabbar-remembers-leslie-nielsen.jpg) that I have 🙂 I can’t say I’ve ever seen a small plane control panel but I’ve seen plenty of computer flight sims. I always assume it’s like my uncle’s fishing boat but more complicated. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296.md?page=2)