# Non-pilots: Look! Up in the sky! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 27, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296 "2011-08-27T16:15:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/41 "2011-08-30T11:59:59Z")
I live on an air base. When I look up and see a fighter jet shrieking past, I think “I bet that’s good work, if you can get it.” Then I pause and wonder what those guys do all day at work when they’re _not_ flying. Do they do paperwork? Do they rake leaves? Answer the phones? Watch TV? Surf Facebook and TVTropes like I do all day at work?😃 I’ve got a friend who joined the Civil Air Patrol at my suggestion, and she and her unit just did a major exercise with the Air Force, basically practicing with the two organizations working together for disaster response. Fun trivia, but back in WWII, one of the things those little airplanes might be doing would be sub hunting. :eek: The Civil Air Patrol was responsible for, among other things, trolling around off the coasts of the US looking for U-Boats. The Germans knew that the little red and yellow airplanes didn’t carry any weapons (at first), but that if you saw one of those little yellow and red airplanes, you were likely to meet it’s bomb-laden big green brother rather soon. My understanding is that the sub hunting mission is largely a thing of the past for CAP nowadays. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/42 "2011-08-30T13:15:31Z")
Not a pilot, but I’ve been a lifelong fan of aviation. One of my earliest memories is being invited to sit up in the cockpit on a flight from Athens to Tehran. I was 3 years old. According to my parents, I spent the entire flight up there in the jumpseat! I studied aerospace engineering in University, and had an awesome internship in the performance engineering department at Northwest (RIP) Airlines. I must have a few hundred hours in ‘sim’ time, but due to my hearing impairment and subsequent difficulty understanding anything over radio, I never did pursue my PPL. :mad: Still, I always look up. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/43 "2011-08-30T13:25:34Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > When I get a peak of the cockpit of a commercial airliner, my mind reals at all the controls, dials and buttons. I wonder how many of those are rarely used, or need close attention. I can’t help but think of some of the CG software I use, though. When I first started using software as such, the GUI looked very intimidating, but once I understood what certain basic sets of icons meant, and how the menus categorized everything logically, it became more open to me, and gradually, I became fluent. I can’t help but wonder if pilots for larger, complicated aircraft feel the same way when they’re first training, like virgin eyes looking upon a language they simply don’t understand, but with time and practice, it all becomes second nature. I saw a cartoon once, that depicted a huge panel crammed with gauges. The pilot says to someone, ‘Oh, they’re mostly just for show. But don’t tell anyone, or _everyone_ will want to be a pilot!’ I’ve only flown with ‘steam gauges’. (Roomie says she’s spoiled after flying Black Hawks. They have glass panels and are big aircraft. Everything else seems tiny and obsolete to her now. She has no desire to get back into flying.) Some show that was playing on TV last night mentioned ‘synthetic vision’ and GPS, so I [looked it up](http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22synthetic+vision%22+garmin&aq=f). I found [this promotional video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WChQiApFec) for the Garmin G600. [This one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA06ALqHU9o&feature=related) shows the glide slope (as green boxes). Freakin’ amazing! New Cessnas come with the G1000 (which is sold only to manufacturers) linked upthread somewhere. > [@Raguleader](#): > > Fun trivia, but back in WWII, one of the things those little airplanes might be doing would be sub hunting. :eek: The Civil Air Patrol was responsible for, among other things, trolling around off the coasts of the US looking for U-Boats. The Germans knew that the little red and yellow airplanes didn’t carry any weapons (at first), but that if you saw one of those little yellow and red airplanes, you were likely to meet it’s bomb-laden big green brother rather soon. My understanding is that the sub hunting mission is largely a thing of the past for CAP nowadays. 😃 They also seem to have [sunk two subs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=585474). ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/44 "2011-08-30T14:37:23Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I could see how flying might be fun if it wasn’t so damned noisy. You should look into [gliding](http://www.aerospool.sk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=96&Itemid=99&lang=en). ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/45 "2011-08-30T18:45:45Z")
I live less than a mile from a small airfield, so I see lots of light aircraft flying over. On a gorgeous sunny day when I see them overhead circling and practising landings and so on, I think “Wish I was up there enjoying the view”. They do have a bit of a habit of crash-landing, though (usually with not-too-serious consequences, thankfully, although one did crash and burn into a factory in fog a few years ago), which puts me off a little. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/46 "2011-08-30T19:02:42Z")
I have a passing fascination with ultralights, but, having flown in my boss’s Cirrus for business a couple of times, my attitude toward normal GA is “Meh. I guess there are _worse_ ways to get to Akron for the day.” ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/47 "2011-08-30T22:26:12Z")
I think that, from now on, when I look up, I’ll be thinking of [this guy](http://news.yahoo.com/ark-man-plane-spots-home-being-burglarized-202005725.html) – way to be your own hero! ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/48 "2011-08-30T23:11:59Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I live less than a mile from a small airfield, so I see lots of light aircraft flying over. On a gorgeous sunny day when I see them overhead circling and practising landings and so on, I think “Wish I was up there enjoying the view”. They do have a bit of a habit of crash-landing, though (usually with not-too-serious consequences, thankfully, although one did crash and burn into a factory in fog a few years ago), which puts me off a little. Reminds me of a joke: A group of pilots are gathered on the edge of an airfield on one foggy day. Up above, they can hear an airplane circling, waiting for a break in the fog so he can try to land. One young aviator asks “Do you think he’ll be able to bring her down?” An older pilot replies: “Nobody’s managed to keep one up yet!” ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/49 "2011-08-31T11:12:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It’s hard to believe that second link is a Skyhawk. Times change. Dad bought a six-year-old Skyhawk in 1976 for a little over $10,000. The one that glass panel belongs to is like $300,000. > > I’m watching a movie right now, but [here are some Garmin G1000 tutorials](http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=garmin+g1000+tutorial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8). > > If i ever get my own plane, I’ll try to come up. 😉 I instructed for awhile in those glass-cockpit Skyhawks. My first introduction was delivering a new one to its owner 3 years ago (discussed in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=451056) thread, post #12). It was quite a change for an old guy like me. [stealth-brag] If I may include an interesting note; My son just started a flying job in the Northeast last week. During his evaluation ride with the chief pilot, all the fancy gps moving map displays were switched off, and he was made to complete an entire IFR flight with one [VOR](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=VOR&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1024&bih=548&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=ZQpbSqKpMzmu0M:&imgrefurl=http://indianatco.wikia.com/wiki/VOR&docid=1N8fgj6fvXlJuM&w=225&h=235&ei=YRVeTt7nKNTngQeErrHvAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=468&vpy=231&dur=655&hovh=188&hovw=180&tx=88&ty=83&page=1&tbnh=127&tbnw=122&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0). No GPS, no DME, no ILS. Just a VOR and a clock. Since he did most of his training in ancient equipment, it was easy for him. He said only 2 of the pilot’s in his hiring “class” passed. The rest were told to come back after they’d gotten remedial training.😃 [/stealth-brag] BTW: Welcome back to the air, Johnny. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/50 "2011-08-31T14:28:26Z")
Oh comon, isn’t using the VOR for IFR considered cheating? Give him a stop watch and a compass. 😃 I’m reminded of one of my favorite scenes from The Hunt For Red October now.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/51 "2011-08-31T18:01:19Z")
Well - I’m a huge aviation fan. But when I look up and see a GA aircraft overhead - my first honest thought is disappointment that it’s not something more exotic or interesting (to my limited sensbilities) - something like an old warbird, or something similar. My second thought is also disappointment - that I haven’t pursued my lifelong dream to become a pilot myself yet. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/52 "2011-08-31T19:24:52Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > BTW: Welcome back to the air, Johnny. Alas, I am still a groundling. I did chat with an instructor today though. Did a bit of ‘hangar flying’ and mentioned a cheap Grumman I found during one of my masochism sessions. He said I should buy it and he and I should go get it. Then I’d have an airplane and get my BFR on the way back. 😃 (I wonder how many stops it would be, with two of us in an AA1? Could be a long 1,400 miles.) ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/53 "2011-08-31T19:54:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Then I’d have an airplane and get my BFR on the way back. 😃 (I wonder how many stops it would be, with two of us in an AA1? Could be a long 1,400 miles.) Since this thread is aimed at non-pilots, would you care to explain/elaborate? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/54 "2011-08-31T19:57:40Z")
I’m under the approach path for the Kansas City downtown airport, which is pretty much executive and GA. When I look up, I’m checking to see if it’s one of those nifty canard-wing twin-engine pusher-prop jobs. I see one coming in overhead at least once per month, and I’m assuming it’s the same person/company. Then my thought it, “wow, that’s a neat-looking airplane.” Someone mentioned flush rivets…I know commercial jets are flush-riveted, for the most part, as are, interestingly, Mooney single-engine GA planes. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/55 "2011-08-31T19:59:05Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Since this thread is aimed at non-pilots, would you care to explain/elaborate? 🙂 Sorry. [Grumman AA1](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_American_AA-1). This is a two-seater that has a payload with full fuel of about 338 pounds. Good enough for me and a lot of luggage, or two FAA ‘standard’ occupants. But me and another guy in it would mean offloading fuel. BFR is [Biennial Flight review](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biennial_flight_review). ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/56 "2011-08-31T20:04:52Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Sorry. > > [Grumman AA1](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_American_AA-1). This is a two-seater that has a payload with full fuel of about 338 pounds. Good enough for me and a lot of luggage, or two FAA ‘standard’ occupants. But me and another guy in it would mean offloading fuel. Thanks! Approximately how far would you be able to fly normally with full fuel? (You know, Johnny – you tried once to convince me to join your brethren. I found myself yesterday wistfully looking at the cost of flying lessons at Van Nuys and thinking, “Gee, that’s not as expensive as I would have thought…” Curse you!!!) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/57 "2011-08-31T20:07:34Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > When I look up, I’m checking to see if it’s one of those nifty canard-wing twin-engine pusher-prop jobs. I see one coming in overhead at least once per month, and I’m assuming it’s the same person/company. Then my thought it, “wow, that’s a neat-looking airplane.” Possibly a [Long-EZ](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Ez) or a [VariEze](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VariEze) (spelling changed on the former, because people kept calling the earlier aircraft ‘Vari-ease’), though there are a number of canard-configured kits out there. I’d love to have a Long-EZ so I could tell people, ‘Oh, yeah. It’s the kind John Denver was killed in.’ (Actually, I’d rather have a [Quickie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quickie_Q200) [Q200](http://farm1.static.flickr.com/69/177387267_2f628a9efb.jpg).) > [@DirkGntly](#): > > Someone mentioned flush rivets…I know commercial jets are flush-riveted, for the most part, as are, interestingly, Mooney single-engine GA planes. Not surprising about the Mooneys. They’re noted for their speed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/58 "2011-08-31T20:14:30Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Thanks! Approximately how far would you be able to fly normally with full fuel? > > (You know, Johnny – you tried once to convince me to join your brethren. I found myself yesterday wistfully looking at the cost of flying lessons at Van Nuys and thinking, “Gee, that’s not as expensive as I would have thought…” Curse you!!!) An AA1A cruises around 125 SMPH and carries 24 gallons of fuel. I don’t know how much is usable, but let’s say 22 gallons. I don’t know what the fuel burn is, but I’ve heard as low as 5 gph. At cruise? Maybe… 7 or 8 gph? Wiki says the range is 488 miles, and another source says 350 miles. ‘Not as expensive’ \<\> ‘not expensive’. But it should be fairly affordable for anyone making a middle-class salary. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/59 "2011-08-31T20:35:12Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ‘Not as expensive’ \<\> ‘not expensive’. But it should be fairly affordable for anyone making a middle-class salary. Agreed, and I have other financial priorities at the moment. However, they do offer a two-hour first lesson for under $400 that includes an hour of ground school and an hour of flying where you apparently get to have some control over the plane, and I’m tempted to treat myself just for the experience. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Evil_Prince_Zorte)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/60 "2011-08-31T20:53:58Z")
I live near the Burbank airport, and don’t pay much attention to the GA planes that fly overhead. I will however, run outside if I hear a WWII plane going by. I don’t know enough about them to ID specific types, but I enjoy seeing them fly around, and there are always more than one, in formation. The noise from helicopters and small planes is annoying, but I like the sound of the fighters, even if they are louder. They have a sound that says they mean business. A few times a year, one of the touring B-17s will come around to give rides for the weekend, and I always enjoy seeing them take off and land. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296.md?page=4)