# Non-pilots: Look! Up in the sky! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 27, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296 "2011-08-27T16:15:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/61 "2011-09-01T00:50:25Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Agreed, and I have other financial priorities at the moment. However, they do offer a two-hour first lesson for under $400 that includes an hour of ground school and an hour of flying where you apparently get to have some control over the plane, and I’m tempted to treat myself just for the experience. Yep. I’ve had a mortgage since 2003, was unemployed or under employed from 2005 to 2006, and have had a car payment since 2008. As an old girlfriend used to say, ‘It’s all what’s most important to you.’ $400 for an hour of ground school and an hour of flying sounds very high. An hour of ground school should only cost the instructor’s hourly rate, which is probably around $45/hour. (NB: He doesn’t get to keep all of that.) A Cessna 172 will probably go for around $120/hour, plus the instructor. So an hour of ground and an hour of flying should only be around $210 – and some places will have an intro deal. I took my ground school, including the FAA exam, at the community college in Lancaster. At the time (1983/84) it cost $50. You can probably find a Private Pilot Ground School course at a community college near you for whatever the current tuition is. Last time I checked, you have two years after taking the exam to get your license. There’s always the video option. Sporty’s Pilot Shop has their [Complete Private Pilot Course](http://sportys.com/pilotshop/product/9559) for $215. If you buy something from the shop, you can get a [free Learn To Fly Kit](http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/9377) that contains a _Your First Few Hours_ DVD, a 20-flight log book, a poster, their latest catalogue, and a sex-month trial subscription to _AOPA Flight Training_ magazine. Or you can order the Learn To Fly Kit for a a nickel under a fin if you don’t want to buy anything. The other ‘big name’ in video ground school is [King Schools](http://www.kingschools.com/), with the ever-enthusiastic John and Martha King. In any case four hundred simoleons for an hour of ground and an hour of dual is too much. You might want to check around. (Not that I’m being all evil an’ shite. 😃 ) > [@The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](#): > > I live near the Burbank airport… The noise from helicopters… is annoying ‘Burbank Tower, helicopter four-zero-zero-zero-niner, request transition eastbound along the one-oh-one, four hundred feet or below.’ 😃 I used to live under the traffic pattern for Santa Monica. Loved it. There was a pair of Long-EZs that would fly over in formation frequently. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/62 "2011-09-01T02:36:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Possibly a [Long-EZ](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Ez) or a [VariEze](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VariEze) (spelling changed on the former, because people kept calling the earlier aircraft ‘Vari-ease’), though there are a number of canard-configured kits out there. I’d love to have a Long-EZ so I could tell people, ‘Oh, yeah. It’s the kind John Denver was killed in.’ (Actually, I’d rather have a [Quickie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quickie_Q200) [Q200](http://farm1.static.flickr.com/69/177387267_2f628a9efb.jpg).) > > Not surprising about the Mooneys. They’re noted for their speed. Yeah, I’m familiar with both the Long-EZ and VariEze kits…this is a large, twin-engine executive turboprop that I’m talking about. Found it! By Piaggio…(There’s a discontinued Beech out there that’s similar, but the one I have seen is definitely the Piaggio - and I’ve seen them at a couple of other airports around the country) > **[Piaggio P.180 Avanti](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.180_Avanti)** > > The Piaggio P.180 Avanti is an executive/VIP light transport aircraft, designed by Piaggio Aero and built in Italy. It features twin, wing-mounted turboprop engines, in a pusher configuration. The Avanti seats up to nine people in a pressurized cabin and may be flown by one or two pilots. The design is of three-surface configuration, having both a small forward wing and a conventional tailplane, as well as its main wing, with the main wing spars passing behind the passenger cabin area. The FAI ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/63 "2011-09-01T12:40:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > If you buy something from the shop, you can get a [free Learn To Fly Kit](http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/9377) that contains a _Your First Few Hours_ DVD, a 20-flight log book, a poster, their latest catalogue, and a **sex-month** trial subscription to _AOPA Flight Training_ magazine. A whole sex-month? Man, I don’t think I have the stamina for _that_.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/64 "2011-09-01T13:42:45Z")
:smack: _Right_-hand vowel! _Right_-hand vowel! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/65 "2011-09-03T01:47:11Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > Found it! By Piaggio…(There’s a discontinued Beech out there that’s similar, but the one I have seen is definitely the Piaggio - and I’ve seen them at a couple of other airports around the country) > [Piaggio P.180 Avanti - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.180_Avanti) I’ve always liked the Piaggios. They’re sexy. I used to fly over Beech Starships. The place where I rented helicopters was near the United Beechcraft hangar at VNY. [I flew a Cessna today](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=622828). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/66 "2011-09-03T02:19:06Z")
Interesting thread. I am a military aviation buff, and I know virtually nothing about general aviation and only slightly more about about commercial aviation. When you started by talking about a Skyhawk, I thought you were talking about [this](http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/a4-02.jpg). I can ID most American and European combat aircraft produced during and after WWII. I almost never think about the pilot, or where the plane is going. I live pretty close to the base of a WI National Guard F16 squadron, so I hear the planes flying by fairly often, and they sound distinctly different than commercial planes. Sometimes it sounds like they’re really hauling ass, and I wonder if they’re responding to some alert about a highjacked plane. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/67 "2011-09-03T04:05:01Z")
GA? My dad learned to fly during the War, but he was just a Sargeant… :rolleyes: Really, I’m one of those guys, the ones who see a Cessna and think that it would be really fun to have a taildragger biplane, or an autogyro or some other completely impractical craft. Thinking about it now, I guess I have to admit that the actual pilots are more practical than I am as a Wuffo. I don’t think of GA as a rich person’s sport. Sure it was sixty years ago, but my dad got his twin engine certification while working as a mechanic, and I know a few people who have shares of a small plane. None of them are rich. When I look at the rivets, I see a skin that has to be taken off every once in a while for inspection, and I’d rather have an instrument panel that looks like [this](http://www.warbirdsite.com/Spitfirepanel.jpg) or [this](http://www.kosier.net/spitfire/images/New%20Dash.jpg) than one that looks like [this.](http://www.tuvie.com/wp-content/uploads/futuristic-dashboard-paris-motor-show2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/68 "2011-09-04T07:41:01Z")
Non-pilot here, but interested in planes and aviation generally. I can’t say I notice GA planes much at all; unless I’m right near the airport and they’re flying low they all look the same to me. I tend to notice the large commercial transports more, and try to determine which version of the Boeing 747 I’m looking at, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/69 "2011-09-04T13:53:23Z")
We were doing stalls, slow flight, and turns the other day, and also a simulated engine failure. I doubt anyone noticed the stalls unless they were looking. But slow flight has the nose high and the throttle to the wall. Someone on the ground might think we were struggling to stay aloft. (Skyhawks like to fly. When I was training for my license we were doing slow flight and the instructor told me to stall. The darned thing wouldn’t do it. Yoke all the way back, trim tab all the way up IAS 40 kts, and it just kept flying. I was reaching for the carb heat to reduce engine power without taking off throttle, and the instructor said to forget it. He called a stall on a technicality.) Doing turns around Lummi Island I wondered what people thought. ‘What are they looking for?’ ‘Why are they circling my house?’ Anyone on the ground during our simulated engine failure would have heard the common drone of a light aircraft, and then nothing. Did it make them look? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296/70 "2011-09-04T14:12:55Z")
I lived in housing under the end of the flight line at NAS Norfolk, and my office was under the end of the flight line at NAS Oceana. I can pretty much identify US modern military aircraft by sound. Nothing quite like that 6AM cargo flight out for a wake up … :smack: I have a love of airshows, and think it would be the best ‘job’ ever to pilot a classic WW2 aircraft. I think if I was obscenely rich and healthy, I would consider barnstorming. [it would take being rich to properly restore and properly maintain a collection of antique metal.] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-pilots-look-up-in-the-sky/594296.md?page=3)