# Non-Racist Trump voters wondering why they're getting shit about racism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963 "2016-11-14T14:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/21 "2016-11-15T17:23:23Z")
Why not? It’s the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/22 "2016-11-15T17:28:59Z")
Perhaps it’s time for those on the left who are female, non-white, non-hetero, etc., to start training for those concealed-carry permits and exercise their own 2nd Amendment rights. Goose, gander, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/23 "2016-11-15T18:10:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What we shouldn’t have done is nominated Hillary just because she insisted it was her turn. Short memory, I guess. This is not actually what happened. Two major Democrats contested in the primary, Biden decided not to try for personal reasons, and Hillary won. If those voters are having second thoughts now, they have no-one to blame but themselves. Or are you blaming Hillary just for running? > [@elucidator](#): > > Coalition politics is not divisive, precisely the opposite. It comprises getting various people to recognize that they have common concerns and goals. An essential part of any democratic system comprised of more than a hundred people. Maybe, if it’s done right, but what it usually ends up looking like is group against group against group against group, each vying for their interests against everyone else. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Perhaps it’s time for those on the left who are female, non-white, non-hetero, etc., to start training for those concealed-carry permits and exercise their own 2nd Amendment rights. Goose, gander, etc. This is what I mean. Why do we have to have political discussions based on group identity? Why can’t we discuss actual economic and social issues based on our individual convictions about what is right and good, instead of what benefits my favored groups? Throughout the election I thought Hillary was making a serious tactical error, as well as making me nuts, by focusing on how bad Trump is rather than on how good her policies and convictions would be for everyone. She never gave anyone much of a reason to vote for her, only against Trump. Not only did she lose the election, she left nothing behind in the campaign to point to with pride for future candidates. Plenty of non-racist\* people voted for Trump because he seemed to favor, however vaguely, their group (unemployed or underemployed people who think they have been screwed over by trade deals and globalization, for example). \*for certain values of “racist.” I think we can all tell the difference, however subtle, between David Duke and Breitbart on the one hand, and your average blue collar Joe and Jane voters on the other. And **madmonk28** , I hope your posts here are based on temporary despair and that you will see more hope for the human condition at some point in the near future. I disagree strongly with your sentiments; I have seen tremendous positive changes in my longish life, and despite setbacks there is always better to hope for and work for. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/24 "2016-11-16T04:55:29Z")
Wish I could help you **Roderick** , but I had just about given up on America before this election. The reaction to Obama by about half the country was clearly racist, meanwhile we had the plurality of the other side trying to pretend they weren’t as racists as they obviously are. Call it what it is. At least we can stop with this “America is the greatest nation on earth” bullshit. It obviously is not by any measure. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/25 "2016-11-16T14:07:45Z")
Trump won because he carried PA, WI, MI. Looking at the 2012 numbers vs 2016 in these states, I find it hard to conclude anything other than that a number of Obama voters stayed home, AND a number of Obama voters voted for Trump. Now, it is possible that these then-Obama-now-Trump voters are racist. I find this unlikely. Meaning that this line of thinking that all Trump voters are racist is just stupid. Sure, some of the people who voted for him are racist. Some vocally so. Not 60 million of them. The notion that they are racist because they voted for a guy who got votes from people who are outspokenly racist is stupid. Or it stretches the term racist to something not useful. It’s like this - some of the people who voted for HRC like Coldplay, and some won’t even hide it. That doesn’t mean every HRC voter is so afflicted, and calling all 61 million HRC voters twee because of their Coldplay-loving cohorts renders the term useless. The point that left-of-center needs to start addressing is that there are enough people who voted Trump _despite_ the intolerant and at times outright stupid things Trump said on campaign - to get him elected. Writing them all off as racist is a continuation of the arrogance which contributed to this result, and could make for repeats at the mid-term and 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/26 "2016-11-16T15:00:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Whenever _ **I** _ find that a politician is putting forth a racist or sexist position, sure, I will reject it. But when somebody else says it’s happening - you still have to show me. That’s the problem. People who are willing to ignore racism and sexism as long as it’s happening somewhere else. And, of course, to somebody else. I realize not every Trump voter is a racist or a sexist. But are Trump voters planning on doing anything to oppose racists or sexists? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/27 "2016-11-16T15:16:49Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > The point that left-of-center needs to start addressing is that there are enough people who voted Trump _despite_ the intolerant and at times outright stupid things Trump said on campaign - to get him elected. Writing them all off as racist is a continuation of the arrogance which contributed to this result, and could make for repeats at the mid-term and 2020. Again, because it apparently needs to be said repeatedly, being _knowingly_ complicit in promoting a bigot into office is not any more noble than being bigoted yourself. Is this really that hard to understand and accept? I mean, let’s take a time machine back to 1930s Germany. A certain political figure is gaining popularity. He’s saying anti-Semitic things here and there. He’s promoting xenophobia and the persecution of minorities. He’s saying things that suggest he’s against anyone who doesn’t fit the Aryan model of purity and genetic superiority. And oh yeah, he’s promising to make all the trains run on time. Wouldn’t we say anyone who supported him _despite_ his intolerant messaging, simply because their single issue of concern is timely rail service, is ethically flawed? Self-interested to a fault? Even a de facto bigot because they rate punctual trains higher than equality and justice for all citizens? Why yes, most people would say this. You don’t get a pass from being judged as aiding and abetting bigotry just because you aren’t principally concerned with hurting people. Just as history judged the Germans who helped Hilter come into power, so too will Trump voters be judged. The red flags were all there and they chose to ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/28 "2016-11-16T15:17:05Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > No, he wouldn’t. > > Nobody would. > > Trump didn’t win because people liked him more than Clinton, he won because _nobody took him seriously_. > > No other candidate would have made more people take Trump seriously. No amount of ‘meh’ surrounding Clinton could have kept people from voting for her, if they really thought the orange lump would win. Bullshit. Trump was not inevitable or unbeatable unless he was running against Hillary. Trump won in large part because people were much worse than “meh” about Hillary. They gagged when they thought about voting for her. Sure they would like to put in a symbolic vote against Trump but not if it meant voting for Hillary. People would have voted for Biden in the rust belt. Same with a shitload of other candidates that didn’t win because everyone told them to back off and make room for Hillary. If you lose an election against Trump, you’ve got noone to blame but yourself. Hillary is the reason Hillary lost. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/29 "2016-11-16T15:22:39Z")
I think Sam Bee had a good answer to this question. [QUOTE=Samantha Bee] “If Muslims have to take responsibility for every member of their community, then so do we.” [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/30 "2016-11-16T15:25:02Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Short memory, I guess. This is not actually what happened. Two major Democrats contested in the primary, Biden decided not to try for personal reasons, and Hillary won. If those voters are having second thoughts now, they have no-one to blame but themselves. Or are you blaming Hillary just for running? No, I’m blaming Hillary for losing. I’m blaming the rest of the Democrats for acceding to her wish to run virtually unopposed. Biden being the main culprit. So maybe we should blame Biden for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/31 "2016-11-16T15:37:11Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > I’m not impressed by an argument that comprises of three anecdotes that could have been made up. There are a lot more than three of those anecdotes out there. I have friends that have reported similar things happening to them. And a similar spike in hate crimes happened immediately following the Brexit vote in the UK. But I suppose it’s easier to believe that all those people are lying than to accept that this is the world we live in now. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > We shouldn’t have reflexively jumped down the throats of everyone who said “All Lives Matter”. Some of them were agreeing with us, and we alienated them over an issue of semantics. It was never about semantics. That was the problem. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Biden being the main culprit. So maybe we should blame Biden for Trump. Jesus. His son had just died. Give the guy a break for not wanting to deal with the hassle of a presidential campaign. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/32 "2016-11-16T17:01:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It was never about semantics. That was the problem. I’ll agree that some of the people who responded with All Lives Matter did so out of well meaning ignorance, and not out of racism, even though the phrase was coined and promulgated by racists in the first place. BLM should’ve started out as ALM, then the racially motivated sectors of the right wouldn’t have had that easy pivot to get the non-racists on their side against BLM. > [@](#): > > Jesus. His son had just died. Give the guy a break for not wanting to deal with the hassle of a presidential campaign. Next conspiracy out of the far left? The Clintons had Beau killed to keep Biden out of the race. I mean, people pining over Biden, stop it. He didn’t want to run. If you think he’s lying about his reasons, then why do you think he should be president? ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/33 "2016-11-16T17:20:39Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Again, because it apparently needs to be said repeatedly, being _knowingly_ complicit in promoting a bigot into office is not any more noble than being bigoted yourself. Is this really that hard to understand and accept? > > I mean, let’s take a time machine back to 1930s Germany. A certain political figure is gaining popularity. He’s saying anti-Semitic things here and there. He’s promoting xenophobia and the persecution of minorities. He’s saying things that suggest he’s against anyone who doesn’t fit the Aryan model of purity and genetic superiority. > > And oh yeah, he’s promising to make all the trains run on time. > > Wouldn’t we say anyone who supported him _despite_ his intolerant messaging, simply because their single issue of concern is timely rail service, is ethically flawed? Self-interested to a fault? Even a de facto bigot because they rate punctual trains higher than equality and justice for all citizens? Why yes, most people would say this. > > You don’t get a pass from being judged as aiding and abetting bigotry just because you aren’t principally concerned with hurting people. Just as history judged the Germans who helped Hilter come into power, so too will Trump voters be judged. The red flags were all there and they chose to ignore them. Except, of course, Trump isn’t Hitler. Not even early, democratically elected Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/34 "2016-11-16T17:37:34Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > At least we can stop with this “America is the greatest nation on earth” bullshit. It obviously is not by any measure. This just in from our _Silver Linings_ desk: in 2020, the Democratic candidate will be able to use the slogan “Make America Great Again,” and it _won’t_ be a load of counter-factual nonsense… ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/35 "2016-11-16T17:39:07Z")
I don’t believe all Trump voters are racist. They are, however, racist-tolerant and that needs to be constantly pointed out to them. And I agree with those who place a lot of blame with the DNC for discouraging any serious candidates from running against Clinton, who was from the beginning clearly the worst possible candidate with the heaviest baggage and lowest approval numbers available. Her opponents - O’Malley and Sanders - were just the fringiest of the fringe, allowed to play because it wouldn’t have looked good for her to be unopposed. When Sanders picked up steam, the DNC did what it could to hold him back. But there should have been better options from the beginning. The media didn’t help, by crowning her as the presumptive nominee from the time she announced her candidacy. So Trump voters, the Democratic Party, the media, and Hillary herself all deserve to be pitted for this fuckup. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/36 "2016-11-16T17:43:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Bullshit. > > \ > > Hillary is the reason Hillary lost. Bullshit[sup]2[/sup]. The urban legend (crafted and nurtured over the course of a quarter of a century) about Hillary is the reason the nation lost. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/37 "2016-11-16T18:00:37Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Clinton, who was from the beginning clearly the worst possible candidate with the heaviest baggage and lowest approval numbers available. Her opponents - O’Malley and Sanders - were just the fringiest of the fringe, allowed to play because it wouldn’t have looked good for her to be unopposed. How was O’Malley the fringiest of the fringe? (That’s not me being argumentative; I just genuinely don’t know much about the guy. As far as I knew, O’Malley had been a Mayor for eight years, and then a Governor for eight years, and _wasn’t_ – well, gay, or Muslim, or a Vietnam-era draft dodger, or some wild-eyed socialist talking about free college for all; or about how cool it would be to legalize marijuana, or to pay massive reparations to the descendants of slaves, or whatever; didn’t he just have a ton of positions in common with Hillary Clinton, only with nobody screaming about who got people killed at Benghazi, or chanting about who should get locked up for deleting the damned e-mails?) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/38 "2016-11-16T18:05:50Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > Except, of course, Trump isn’t Hitler. Not even early, democratically elected Hitler. It’s an analogy, dude. If Hitler gives you angina, insert another demagogue. Or better yet, pretend its a student council election and the winner is the biggest bully in the school. While those who consider themselves in the in-crowd might not care all that much about electing a bully just as long as Biff Jr carries out his promise to put Sprite in the water fountains, those who disagree with them are perfectly justified in seeing them as bully enablers and de facto assholes. As well as stupid as fuck to believe a bully like that actually carries out promises. The harm in portraying this kind of single-issue self-interest as valid and ethically in the clear is that it invites corruption. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/39 "2016-11-16T18:15:27Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Bullshit[sup]2[/sup]… This is an official notice of theft. That’s _mine_ now, back off! ---
**Author:** ![Neo-Calredic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/96bed5/32.png) [@Neo-Calredic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neo-Calredic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/40 "2016-11-16T18:34:46Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > Except, of course, Trump isn’t Hitler. Not even early, democratically elected Hitler. True. Hitler was German, had a moustache, and lived in the late 19th-mid 20th century. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963.md?page=3)