# Non-Racist Trump voters wondering why they're getting shit about racism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963 "2016-11-14T14:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/61 "2016-11-17T12:59:50Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > At least we can stop with this “America is the greatest nation on earth” bullshit. It obviously is not by any measure. We’re still “greatest” by some measures. How many countries can you name that are “great” enough to elect someone like the Trump? We elect some rather despicable scum in Thailand, but I don’t think even the Thais would have fallen for his crap. > [@Isosleepy](#): > > Sure, some of the people who voted for him are racist. Some vocally so. Not 60 million of them. The notion that they are racist because they voted for a guy who got votes from people who are outspokenly racist is stupid. Or it stretches the term racist to something not useful. Damn tootin’ it’s stupid to say all the Trump voters are racist! Some of them are homophobes; some of them are women-haters. Some of them are loving Christians who just want to get all the non-Christians out of this country. And most of them are just stupid deluded swine who, if they had a smidgen of self-respect would have stayed home on Election Day, apologizing for being too stupid to vote. But No … they’re not all racists. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/62 "2016-11-17T13:18:58Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Hint for innocent doe-eyed Trump voters: A vote for the man who promised a total and complete ban on all Muslims entering the country, was a vote for racism. What’s that? “Muslim” means religion, not race? Don’t let your obfuscation and denial cloud your vision. I don’t quite follow you. Why use the word “racism” to describe that? What, you think one is bad, and the other is bad, so they must be the same? Would you also label all _sexism_ as racism? How about all ageism? Maybe opposition to gay marriage? What’s the benefit of using the word “racism” as a weird catch-all? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/63 "2016-11-17T13:30:48Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > What’s the benefit of using the word “racism” as a weird catch-all? “Race” is a vague concept. Hatred of Arabs would be called racism, but not hatred of Muslims? Ageist, sexist, racist, are terms in common use. What do you propose for hatred of Muslims? “Religionist”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/64 "2016-11-17T13:37:02Z")
Bigot? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/65 "2016-11-17T13:45:58Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > “Race” is a vague concept. Hatred of Arabs would be called racism, but not hatred of Muslims? > > Ageist, sexist, racist, are terms in common use. What do you propose for hatred of Muslims? “Religionist”? Technically “sectarian” but that just tends to confuse people. “Bigot/bigoted/bigotry” works just fine in most circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/66 "2016-11-17T13:48:18Z")
Maybe “Fearful Prick” could be used to describe someone who hates Muslims, or hates someone who has a name that sounds different than his, or hates someone who looks different than he does, or whatever, but is uncomfortable being called a racist. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/67 "2016-11-17T14:40:11Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > No one has yet explained to me how that is a reasonable thing to demand, ESPECIALLY to those who belong to said demographics who feel personally attacked at best, and being killed at worst. “Well, you won’t convince them if you’re mean to them.” _mind boggling_ I don’t know what was the biggest slap of the face to me last Weds morning. Finding out that nearly half the electorate voted for the most hateful windbag of malfeasant incompetence I’ve ever seen in my lifetime or finding out so many Dems think the real problem is that “we” aren’t sweet talking whites enough. And while black folks like me are now contemplating the implications of a President who advocates “stop and frisk” despite its unconstitutionality, while also reeling from an America with cops who will now feel even more empowered to kill us in the name of law and order, we can’t even express outrage at the people who made this happen without hearing people from our own party cry “calling them names is why we lost the election! Wah!” ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/68 "2016-11-17T14:51:07Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > I’m not impressed by an argument that comprises of three anecdotes that could have been made up. You lost an election that should have been a slam dunk in part because of your divisive identity politics. Why is it okay for Republicans to be divisive (libtard, SJWs, Ivory Tower, etc), but if Democrats do it, they lose the election? I mean, hell, the GOP rebranded “liberal” as a perjorative. And now \*we \*get lectured on being inclusive? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/69 "2016-11-17T14:53:59Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Of course, if you never manage to see any racism/sexism even when it is right in front of you, then yes, you will disappoint. How are you feeling about Steve Bannon’s appointment, if I may ask? As mentioned, I will wait until \*\*\*I see \*\*\*a politician put forth a racist or sexist position, and then speak against it. What is right in front of me might not be the same as what is right in front of you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/70 "2016-11-17T15:06:43Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > “Race” is a vague concept. Hatred of Arabs would be called racism, but not hatred of Muslims? > > Ageist, sexist, racist, are terms in common use. What do you propose for hatred of Muslims? “Religionist”? I mulled this over and possibly it comes down to whether or not one believes someone can be _born_ a Muslim, and subsequently that even if an infant “born” Muslim was adopted by a Christian/Jewish/atheist/etc. family, their “Muslim blood” will invariably manifest in some stereotypical Muslim behaviour? Is there similar “Jewish blood” ? “Catholic blood” ? For that matter, “Irish blood” ? “German blood” ? To me it seems fairly obvious that religion (and nationality, in the sense of modern nation-states) is a learned trait, but I see that the presumption that a newborn is of the same religion as its parents is widespread. If so, I daresay “racism” fits well enough. If the label matters in the first place, and oftentimes it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/71 "2016-11-17T15:56:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As mentioned, I will wait until \*\*\*I see \*\*\*a politician put forth a racist or sexist position, and then speak against it. > > What is right in front of me might not be the same as what is right in front of you. Remember, kids: it’s not racism or sexism until a white man says it is. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/72 "2016-11-17T16:53:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I mulled this over and possibly it comes down to whether or not one believes someone can be _born_ a Muslim, and subsequently that even if an infant “born” Muslim was adopted by a Christian/Jewish/atheist/etc. family, their “Muslim blood” will invariably manifest in some stereotypical Muslim behaviour? Is there similar “Jewish blood” ? “Catholic blood” ? For that matter, “Irish blood” ? “German blood” ? > > To me it seems fairly obvious that religion (and nationality, in the sense of modern nation-states) is a learned trait, but I see that the presumption that a newborn is of the same religion as its parents is widespread. If so, I daresay “racism” fits well enough. But if someone explains that he even wants to bar blindingly-white Caucasians from immigrating to the United States if they’re Muslim – what then? Why try to make that fit as racism when we can just say a guy who so pre-judges people is – well, _prejudiced,_ I suppose? Or “bigoted”, as was suggested upthread? Why struggle to maybe classify it as racism? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/73 "2016-11-17T17:08:55Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Why struggle to maybe classify it as racism? It’s not really _much_ of a struggle, as long as “race” remains ill-defined. I daresay affixing a negative label is done for the same reason affixing negative labels has always been done - shorthand for saying “this is bad.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/74 "2016-11-17T17:16:00Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s not really _much_ of a struggle, as long as “race” remains ill-defined. I daresay affixing a negative label is done for the same reason affixing negative labels has always been done - shorthand for saying “this is bad.” Well, sure, I guess. But we don’t, like, refer to murderers as child molesters – or vice versa, for that matter – just to indicate that they’re bad, right? If a guy is dishonest, we don’t automatically call him an adulterer; and if he commits treason, we don’t suddenly default to saying he’s a serial rapist. It just seems _weird,_ is all. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/75 "2016-11-17T17:33:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, sure, I guess. > > But we don’t, like, refer to murderers as child molesters – or vice versa, for that matter – just to indicate that they’re bad, right? If a guy is dishonest, we don’t automatically call him an adulterer; and if he commits treason, we don’t suddenly default to saying he’s a serial rapist. It just seems _weird,_ is all. “Race” and “racism” are ill-defined but negative. “Murderer”, “child molester”, “adulterer”, “traitor” and “rapist” are actually pretty specific (“dishonest”, I’ll grant, is pretty broad), so I don’t quite follow your point. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/76 "2016-11-17T17:47:17Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, sure, I guess. > > But we don’t, like, refer to murderers as child molesters – or vice versa, for that matter – just to indicate that they’re bad, right? If a guy is dishonest, we don’t automatically call him an adulterer; and if he commits treason, we don’t suddenly default to saying he’s a serial rapist. It just seems _weird,_ is all. I understand your earlier point, but your analogy is flawed. The things you name have absolutely no overlapping commonalities, whereas racism has a great deal in common with the attributes of bigotry and prejudice of which it’s a subset. There’s not a lot of practical difference between judging someone to be undesirable or perhaps dangerous because of their race, versus making those judgments against someone because of their ethnicity, place of origin, or religion. When applied to Muslims, racism is fairly close to the mark because it’s usually triggered by visible ethnic and cultural differences, even if the bigotry is not precisely race-based. I think if one simply refers to Trump and many of his strongest core of supporters as racist bigots it pretty much covers all the angles except misogyny. Or homophobia. It’s hard to find a single word or phrase that covers absolutely everything that describes Trump or his typical supporter, although “total asshole” comes close. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/77 "2016-11-17T18:18:23Z")
I think it takes a suspicious defensiveness to split hairs over the racist nature of the phrase “total and complete ban on Muslims” based upon the dictionary definition of “racist”. It is a racist policy. Sorry if the term makes uncomfortable those who support the policy, or support the man who says it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/78 "2016-11-17T19:05:57Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I understand your earlier point, but your analogy is flawed. The things you name have absolutely no overlapping commonalities, whereas racism has a great deal in common with the attributes of bigotry and prejudice of which it’s a subset. There’s not a lot of practical difference between judging someone to be undesirable or perhaps dangerous because of their race, versus making those judgments against someone because of their ethnicity, place of origin, or religion. When applied to Muslims, racism is fairly close to the mark because it’s usually triggered by visible ethnic and cultural differences, even if the bigotry is not precisely race-based. > > I think if one simply refers to Trump and many of his strongest core of supporters as racist bigots it pretty much covers all the angles except misogyny. Or homophobia. It’s hard to find a single word or phrase that covers absolutely everything that describes Trump or his typical supporter, although “total asshole” comes close. But you just did it, didn’t you? You’re noting, _right there,_ that racism is a subset of “bigotry”. You add that it has a lot in common with other forms of “bigotry”. You go on to note at the end that, even if we do for some reason use “racism” to cover this, it still wouldn’t describe other “bigots” who despise, for example, homosexuals. So why not just use “bigots” and “bigotry” to be accurate with accuracy? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/79 "2016-11-17T19:10:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > So why not just use “bigots” and “bigotry” to be accurate with accuracy? Because people shriek even louder when you do that than when you say “racist” or “sexist”. And that’s assuming the mods will even _let_ you, anywhere but the BBQ Pit. Also, racism and Islamophobia are practically the same thing these days, anyway. Just look at the years of accusations that Obama was a secret Muslim. “Muslim” is being \*treated as \*a race. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/80 "2016-11-17T19:36:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Remember, kids: it’s not racism or sexism until a white man says it is. Who are you gonna believe - me, or your own eyes? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963.md?page=5)