# Non-Racist Trump voters wondering why they're getting shit about racism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963 "2016-11-14T14:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/101 "2016-11-19T03:29:54Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > There are no non racist Trump voters. Throwing your support behind someone sprouting racist things and promising racist policies and surrounding himself with fellow racists is a blatantly racist act. Supporting racism makes you a racist, period. Not entirely true. They can also be stupid or uninformed. There are a ton of people out there that say that everything bad about Trump was just a lie by the mainstream media. And, of course, there are people who started paying attention to the election a week before it happened. Still, it is true that at least half of them are racist, probably more. But, the problem is, we have to be all PC to win them to our side now, and pretend that being indifferent to racism isn’t itself a form of racism. Right now, we are actually once again facing the actual blatant racists, and we need to focus on them again, and let the rest think they aren’t being racist. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/102 "2016-11-19T04:12:44Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Right now, we are actually once again facing the actual blatant racists, and we need to focus on them again, and let the rest think they aren’t being racist. Cool. Us newly categorized racists will continue ignoring the less vocal minorities and focus on actually hating the loud-mouthed idiots like BLM’ers and their ilk. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/103 "2016-11-19T05:39:58Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Cool. Us newly categorized racists will continue ignoring the less vocal minorities and focus on actually hating the loud-mouthed idiots like BLM’ers and their ilk. More likely the so-called “newly categorized racists” will cheer on the mobs when they storm black neighborhoods, kill everyone they see and burn everything to the ground; [just like](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_race_riot_of_1919) the [good old days](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot). That’s where we’re headed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/104 "2016-11-19T05:48:26Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > …and their ilk. Got ilk? Got hippies for my ilk, kinda fun bunch to hang with. Maybe you should get an ilk! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/105 "2016-11-19T08:23:56Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Cool. Us newly categorized racists will continue ignoring the less vocal minorities and focus on actually hating the loud-mouthed idiots like BLM’ers and their ilk. Ilk? Just say uppity darkies, we know that’s who you mean. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/106 "2016-11-20T18:45:59Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Ilk? Just say uppity darkies, we know that’s who you mean. When the going gets uppity, the uppity get going! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/107 "2016-11-20T18:50:35Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > When the going gets uppity, the uppity get going! 😃 Own it, you racist fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/108 "2016-11-20T19:06:11Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > …BLM’ers and their ilk. Amusingly, _your_ ilk hate the Bureau of Land Management too, don’t you? Or is your ilk different from that ilk? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/109 "2016-11-20T19:24:50Z")
That’s a sub-ilk. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/110 "2016-11-20T21:22:27Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Amusingly, _your_ ilk hate the Bureau of Land Management too, don’t you? Or is your ilk different from that ilk? Are you referring to my environmentalist ilk, or my civil rights ilk? I have a few other ilks, as well. Want me to list them so you can pick the one you find most convenient or vulnerable to insult? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/111 "2016-11-21T02:33:42Z")
Do we have any of the non-racist Trump-voting ilk here? I’d like to hear their comments on appointments like Bannon, Sessions and their ilk(s). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/112 "2016-11-21T02:56:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Do we have any of the non-racist Trump-voting ilk here? Such people do not and cannot exist. Voting for Trump was an act of racism, therefore anyone who voted for Trump is a racist. It’s like looking for pacifist murderers. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/113 "2016-11-21T03:55:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > … Voting for Trump was an act of racism, therefore anyone who voted for Trump is a racist… Most of us have prejudices, sometimes rational, sometimes irrational. When I can control my grief and anger, I realize that my prejudice against Trump voters is not fully rational. Anger and accusations of bigotry against Trump voters who don’t fully deserve it causes them to direct further anger against rational thinkers. Polarization escalates. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/114 "2016-11-21T04:02:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Anger and accusations of bigotry against Trump voters who don’t fully deserve it causes them to direct further anger against rational thinkers. Oh please, sucking up to them just encourages them to be more vicious. If they voted for Trump and the Republicans then they are already willing to see those “rational thinkers” imprisoned or killed. People voted for Trump because they wanted fascism, and they’ll get it. Refusing to acknowledge just how much bigotry and malice is out there is one of the reasons the election was lost. Pretending that they are anything but enemies won’t make their hatred and cruelty go away. Pretending that they don’t know what they are doing won’t change the fact that they know\* exactly\* what they are doing. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/115 "2016-11-21T16:57:05Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Most of us have prejudices, sometimes rational, sometimes irrational. When I can control my grief and anger, I realize that my prejudice against Trump voters is not fully rational. > > Anger and accusations of bigotry against Trump voters who don’t fully deserve it causes them to direct further anger against rational thinkers. Polarization escalates. Too late. Look around. “We” have been polarized for years. It’s just that people don’t care enough to pretend otherwise anymore. It just got more obvious. You think all the hate just suddenly and magically appeared? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/116 "2016-11-22T10:51:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Oh please, sucking up to them just encourages them to be more vicious. If they voted for Trump and the Republicans then they are already willing to see those “rational thinkers” imprisoned or killed. People voted for Trump because they wanted fascism, and they’ll get it. > > Refusing to acknowledge just how much bigotry and malice is out there is one of the reasons the election was lost. Pretending that they are anything but enemies won’t make their hatred and cruelty go away. Pretending that they don’t know what they are doing won’t change the fact that they know\* exactly\* what they are doing. Your mode of thinking is exactly the one that brought about the victory for Trump in the first place and it is not helpful in bringing people to your side. It is comforting for you I’m sure to label everyone who voted Trump as a racist and supporter of fascism but even in your most mouth-frothing moments you can’t possibly believe that. You use a sweeping generalisation to just as much toxic effect as Trump and his goons. There is a not-insignificant portion of voters that could have been swayed to a more liberal position through stronger argument and a better candidate A polarised debate is exactly what arseholes like Trump _want_. That drives people into his tiny hands. Reasoned debates and nuanced postions is what gets you access to the middle ground and it is the middle ground that gets you elected. Especially in such a binary system as that within the US Do you think the middle ground will respond well to being told “if you are even considering voting any other way than democrat you are a racist a fascist and a bigot”? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/117 "2016-11-22T11:02:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Such people do not and cannot exist. Voting for Trump was an act of racism, therefore anyone who voted for Trump is a racist. It’s like looking for pacifist murderers. I think you miss the point entirely. Many people did not vote “yes to Trump” they voted “no to Clinton”. The two are entirely different mindsets. You can make a case for such voters being ill-informed or short-termist and not fully thinking through the consequences of their actions. But if you want to win those people back then focusing on informing them and offering better options and outcomes is exactly what you should do. Writing them off as irredeemable and evil may be cathartic but it merely guarantees a continuation of the current situation. Screaming “BIGOT! RACIST! FASCIST!” in their face does not give them an easy option for transitioning back to a more moderate postion. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/118 "2016-11-22T11:07:34Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Your mode of thinking is exactly the one that brought about the victory for Trump in the first place and it is not helpful in bringing people to your side. On the contrary, it’s trying to pretend that the other side is civilized and reasonable that has let them systematically become more and more powerful until now it’s too late to do anything about it. Nor does it matter if people are on my side or not; we’ve just put people who hate democracy in control of our democracy. There’s no way that they’ll let another serious election happen again. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > It is comforting for you I’m sure to label everyone who voted Trump as a racist and supporter of fascism but even in your most mouth-frothing moments you can’t possibly believe that. Of course I believe it. Voting for Trump was by definition a racist act that supported fascism. Supporting fascism is what _makes_ you a supporter of fascism, and that’s what a vote for Trump and the Republicans was. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You use a sweeping generalisation to just as much toxic effect as Trump and his goons. Because of course venting my depression and anger on a message board is _exactly_ the same as death threats and praising white nationalism & Nazism. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Do you think the middle ground will respond well to being told “if you are even considering voting any other way than democrat you are a racist a fascist and a bigot”? What “middle ground”? “Oh, we’ll only beat black people _halfway_ to death”? And yes, I think Hillary _would_ have won if the Democrats had been willing to use stronger language, and not make it clear that they consider the lives and welfare of women and minorities as less important than the tender feelings of white bigots. So people who would have otherwise have voted Democrat stayed home and didn’t bother, and now the right wing fanatics are in control. And people are \*still \*whining about how we shouldn’t hurt their feelings. It’s OK to openly praise the Nazis, but a _horrible, terrible thing_ to say that doing so is racist. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/119 "2016-11-22T11:23:03Z")
It’s a well established fact that appeasement is fascism’s kryptonite. We just need to come together and give the white supremacists a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/120 "2016-11-22T11:54:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > On the contrary, it’s trying to pretend that the other side is civilized and reasonable that has let them systematically become more and more powerful until now it’s too late to do anything about it. Nor does it matter if people are on my side or not; we’ve just put people who hate democracy in control of our democracy. There’s no way that they’ll let another serious election happen again. Nonsense, you are suggesting a coup. Can’t happen and won’t happen. The election will happen in 4 years time at which point a better case needs to be put by the democrats. > [@](#): > > Of course I believe it. Voting for Trump was by definition a racist act that supported fascism. Supporting fascism is what _makes_ you a supporter of fascism, and that’s what a vote for Trump and the Republicans was. You are defining your own terms here. “A vote for Trump makes you a racist, therefore only a racist could vote for Trump” it is clearly nonsense and only serves to alienate further. > [@](#): > > Because of course venting my depression and anger on a message board is _exactly_ the same as death threats and praising white nationalism & Nazism. You paint everyone that voted one way with the same brush. That is nonsensical and counter-productive. and you just did it again…right there. Be as depressed and as angry as you like if it makes you feel good but railing against the world won’t make it better. > [@](#): > > What “middle ground”? “Oh, we’ll only beat black people _halfway_ to death”? FFS, you know how to read and comprehend a sentence, don’t lower yourself to the real Trump troglodyte level. Clearly I mean the “middle ground” of political opinion that millions in the USA hold. The “middle ground” that can reasoned with and whose votes can change, the “middle ground” of youth voters that can be amenable to reason and argument. > [@](#): > > And yes, I think Hillary _would_ have won if the Democrats had been willing to use stronger language, and not make it clear that they consider the lives and welfare of women and minorities as less important than the tender feelings of white bigots. So people who would have otherwise have voted Democrat stayed home and didn’t bother, and now the right wing fanatics are in control. So further polarising politics is the way to go? that’s the better political process? > [@](#): > > And people are \*still \*whining about how we shouldn’t hurt their feelings. It’s OK to openly praise the Nazis, but a _horrible, terrible thing_ to say that doing so is racist. Shit no, hurt the feelings of the truly bigoted and racist all you want, I’ll join you. I get the whiff of fascism from Trump just as surely as you do. I just do not accept that the outcome is irretrievable or the effects unavoidable and that your position is in any way helpful in fighting against it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963.md?page=7)